would you disclose to a probation officer?

[zach]

i didn't, and i won't simply on principle at this point... none of their business at all... i have a letter from the social security administration that confirms the disability, beyond that i won't disclose

i'm ordered to appear in court in 1 week for violating my probation

[DANIELtakashi]

Hi, Zach
I don't  know much about this particular situation in the United States but l hope things will go smoothly.

[Jim Allen]

Really sorry to hear this, I'm presuming you will have a lawyer help you with as well? I hope all goes well for you at the court appearance .

Jim

[leatherman]

why would you need to tell a probation officer? What does your health status (about any health issue) have to do with probation? Was it something connected to your health situation that caused you to violate probation (if you did violate it, that is)?

I would say  probation has no need to know unless it was because of your HIV/health condition that this problem happened.

[zach]

why would you need to tell a probation officer? What does your health status (about any health issue) have to do with probation? Was it something connected to your health situation that caused you to violate probation (if you did violate it, that is)?

I would say  probation has no need to know unless it was because of your HIV/health condition that this problem happened.

There is a questionnaire given when you first report for probation, one of the questions is "are you disabled." I checked the box that says yes. He asked me what my disability was, I told him I'm not going to disclose my medical information. That was the violation.

His reasoning is that to do community service, they need to know the nature of my disability or the private probation company that administers the service will not accept liability.

[Wade]

So... not disclosing was your violation ?
Maybe you can meet with the Judge in his chambers.

[zach]

So... not disclosing was your violation ?

correct

[leatherman]

the private probation company that administers the service will not accept liability.

as a subcontractor for the state wouldn't they be held to disability and accessibility laws? and how exactly is your health status a barrier for probation?

I know, rhetorical questions. I'm very sorry to hear you're going through this situation, and I certainly hope it works out to your benefit - or at least not to your detriment

[LukasAtlPZ]

correct

Dekalb or Fulton? I think they both use the same scam for traffic tickets

[zach]

Clayton, all the same company though, Professional Probation Services... owned by a former congressman who wrote sweetheart laws on his way out of office.

ACLU and Human Rights Watch are all over them. Georgia in notorious for that corruption. Called a debtors prison system.

Yeah, it's a scam. A number of pending lawsuits against them.

Fuck em

[BT65]

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard, to violate you for not disclosing your disability.  I hope you can sort this out and not get into deep shit. 

I'm sorry you're going through this Zach.  The corrections system is such a money making business anymore. 

Betty

[LukasAtlPZ]

Clayton, all the same company though, Professional Probation Services... owned by a former congressman who wrote sweetheart laws on his way out of office.

ACLU and Human Rights Watch are all over them. Georgia in notorious for that corruption. Called a debtors prison system.

Yeah, it's a scam. A number of pending lawsuits against them.

Fuck em

I was born and raised in rural (at the time) Georgia and now live in Atlanta proper. This does not surprise me in the least. Southern states have a long history of oppression and marginalization of the poor. Add in an entrenched good-ole-boy system to boot.

[zach]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L4YrGaR8E4

ROOOOOAAAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!!! I chose to stand up for my right to privacy.

I want you to know that HIPAA is a shield that protects you. Trust it. If you ever decide to stand up to the State against forced medical disclosure, don't you dare blink

When probation officers threaten you, when the city solicitor tells you he's just trying to help you, when the judge reminds you of the possibility of jail time in lieu of being granted probation. When they all come at you... when you're standing there alone, when it would be easier to just disclose.. when it wouldn't really even bother you to disclose, you just think it's wrong that they demand it, when's it's just the principle

stand your fucking ground.... and calmly repeat after me

"Your Honor, I will not willingly surrender my HIPAA privacy protections. I will not disclose the nature of my disabilities, and I will not give the State a list of the medications that I am prescribed."

The Judge found, in her words

"This court will not violate the defendants right to medical privacy. Further, we do not see that the State has met it's burden to seek a revocation of our original order. This court finds the sentence appropriate and right.

Sir, you are free to leave. The terms of your probation remain unchanged and intact."

It took 3 hours to walk out of there with a shit eating Cheshire cat grin.... and it was priceless. Aight, off to the shed to punch the heavy bag for awhile, I'm feeling pretty full of myself right now.

[Jim Allen]

Nice, that is good news :-)

[Lightfighter]

Great news zach. Way to stand up for yourself

[AusShep]

that's awesome Zach.  you'll probably get nicer community service options now since the for-profit company won't take you.

[zach]

no no, same probation company, they have a contract with the city.

in fact i stood next to the same PO, he was the one that petitioned the court to revoke my probation. i zinged him a couple times.

in the end, the solution i offered the judge was what she chose. actually, i damn sure didn't make a friend of him, oh well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjpmT5noto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=015mdURr2Dw

[BT65]

That's great news, Zach!  I am so happy it worked out.  Once in a while I hear a story of justice, but unfortunately only once in a while. I am glad one of those stories involved you.

Betty

[Wade]

Way to go Zach !
Rocking the court house ... maybe the judge tore those involved a new hole !

[zach]

one of the first things i said in front of the judge, and glad i did because it confused her too

Your Honor, I don't understand why I am here, and I don't understand how I have violated the terms of Probation you set... if you'd please read the petition, even it doesn't say....

quoted directly from the petition for revocation of probation of order

IV
That the Defendant has violated the terms and conditions of probation in the following particulars:   NONE

she looked confused, asked the PO to explain

[Bartlett]

Thats awesome - Crap that you had to do it to start with, but awesome that things worked out for you.

[AusShep]

...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjpmT5noto
...

damn, had no idea how messed up that system is.  the lady without $41 to pay her fine and was put on probabation that costs $35 a month, plus I'm sure tons of late and other fees really made me mad.  she gave her entire tax return and still owed them money.  the guy spending 60 days in jail for one beer...

[leatherman]

are you going to be stuck with that same probation officer? that could be problematic in the future.

[zach]

are you going to be stuck with that same probation officer? that could be problematic in the future.

yeah, i sure didn't make a friend of him... challenged his authority very first question he asked me, didn't back down, then made a fool of him in front of the judge, and he's got me by the balls for five more months

trust me, i've already thought about the fallout from my actions

[zach]

FML

failed a piss test today, 5 weeks since i've smoked the day i was arrested, but i was habitual smoker

i've never heard of false positives on stribild, i know atripla does, i'll put in an email to my doctor... a letter would help, but PO dude has a raging hard on for me

ah well, sleeping in the bed i made

[Lightfighter]

Damn man. That sucks. I hope you can convince them it's old bad decisions.

[zach]

Well, turns out stribild does cause false positive results... this is per the test kit manufacturers list of meds that are known issues

Let's not bullshit about my bad choices... I'm already planning a trip to denver the day I'm off probation.

I gotta get out of Georgia, they've been yelling me that for years

[Lightfighter]

Damn. It can cause a false positive?  Is that with just the test they used and it varies from test to test? 

I should be good with the Army. They send that shit to a lab, iirc they can tell you the difference in things like oxycodone vs hydrocodone vs heroin etc.

Yeah man, it sounds like you and GA aren't getting along too well.

[BT65]

Zach, I hope your false positive test doesn't cause any more issues.  I mean, if you can get a letter from your doctor that's great, but it's such a hassle.  And I'm sure that PO is no friend by now.

Betty

[Wade]

Zach , Get the letter from your doctor.  Hell they cant deny facts !
As for Denver, that sounds like a good choice for you.
Change can be good sometimes.
You'll be like a kid in a candy store ...literally...lol

[zach]

violation hearing this morning, i showed up early

met with the judge in chambers. disclosed, showed her the info i linked here, my freshest bottle of meds, and explained why i don't want to disclose to the private probation service

back out in open court, PO was there, my case was called

PO started to speak, judge said she's ready to make a ruling

no violation, no revocation of order, original order still stands as is... you are free to leave sir

i can't keep zinging that PO officer, i could see burn written all over his face, if i do fuck up and he has even half a chance to crucify me, he's going for the kill


EDIT: i want to copy these links here in case it ever helps someone else in same situation

page 20    http://www.friendslab.com/DrugCheckNewProductTrainingFriendsLab.pdf

this is the training manual for the "drugcheck" urine testing kit

i've researched and found that not only does stribild cause false positives, but that cobicistat also causes thc to linger much longer in the body

Quote

The boosting mechanism can also affect recreational drugs. The liver processes the recreational drug more slowly, resulting in the recreational drug staying in the body for longer

http://www.aidsmap.com/Interactions-between-HIV-treatment-and-recreational-drugs/page/3009725/

[Wade]

Zach
Seems the judge understands the problem , did she see any of the findings on the false positive results ? If not I would ask to meet with her and maybe try and get a letter of some sort.

[leatherman]

It's good to hear that the hearing went well.

Now don't piss off the P.O. anymore - unless of course, he's totally wrong and you can prove it in court again

[Wade]

It's good to hear that the hearing went well.

Now don't piss off the P.O. anymore - unless of course, he's totally wrong and you can prove it in court again

Wont he have to deal with this same problem every time he gets pee tested ?

[Jim Allen]

I understood that due to the meds it mean it takes his liver longer to break it down but in the end it does. So if he keep testing positive for drugs i am presuming it might happen again that he ends up in court

[zach]

wade, that is correct... i don't think they'll piss test me again because of stribild will ALWAYS cause a false positive for THC. and yes, i met with the judge privately in chambers before the hearing, i disclosed to her, explained everything and presented her with supporting documentation... also told her i didn't want to disclose to the private probation company. one of the pending cases against them is by an HIV+ man, his PO officer called the mans exwife, told her it was a health risk to her children to be around their father. PPS has a horrible reputation, it's only a matter of town before they're ran out of Georgia the same way they were barred from Alabama.

the training manual says that all positive results should be confirmed
page 13

Types of Testing:
Screening and Confirmation
• A screening test is an initial test for drugs.
It can be an onsite test like DrugCheck® or
a test that is done on a chemistry analyzer.
It is usually non-quantitative.
• A confirmation test is often more sensitive
and more specific (selective) that a
screening test and is usually quantitative.
• An example of a confirmation assay is gas
chromatography/masspectrometry (GC/MS
or LC/MS)
• Positive screening tests should be
confirmed by GC/MS or LC/MS.

i offered to submit to a blood test, as they won't give false positive results... but the PO officer said that they don't use those tests (remember that it's a private corporation)

the judge didn't like his answer, she was obviously getting annoyed with him at that point.

Stribild will ALWAYS cause a false positive result for THC in urine. Even if you don't smoke. Be aware of that.

If you do use drugs... any drugs... cobicistat will cause that drug to remain detectable in your system for longer than normally expected. Be aware of that as well

Fact is, many HIV drugs will cause false positive results on urine testing.

[Jim Allen]

Well its ridiculous having to go to court over this in the first place, but I'm glad you kicked his backside in court when you did.

Jim

[BT65]

That's great news Zach.  Congrats!

[zach]

If you do use drugs... any drugs... cobicistat will cause that drug to remain detectable in your system for longer than normally expected. Be aware of that as well

should add... Norvir will also do this

[bocker3]

the training manual says that all positive results should be confirmed

Well, Hell -- of course any positive result on a SCREENING TEST, should automatically require a confirmatory test.  Screening tests are made to purposely side on sensitivity over specificity.  So you can be sure a Neg is Neg, but a Pos may be due to the over-sensitivity in the screening test.  Any lab that is run properly, should automatically do a confirmatory test on a positive screening test (for drugs or any other thing -- like, say, HIV). 
I'll bet this private company has ownership stake in the "lab" that does their drug screens.

[zach]

Well, Hell -- of course any positive result on a SCREENING TEST, should automatically require a confirmatory test.  Screening tests are made to purposely side on sensitivity over specificity.  So you can be sure a Neg is Neg, but a Pos may be due to the over-sensitivity in the screening test.  Any lab that is run properly, should automatically do a confirmatory test on a positive screening test (for drugs or any other thing -- like, say, HIV). 
I'll bet this private company has ownership stake in the "lab" that does their drug screens.

nah, they don't confirm any of their screening results. there is no lab, they just have the test kit cups at the PO office.

you violate for any positive result, regardless of what their own training manual says. i wonder how many people have been wrongly violated? i wonder how many people that don't have access to the internet, or don't know how to search for that manual... don't even realize they may have been railroaded? a violation is a "do not pass go, go straight to jail" card

i've always known private probation was a racket, but now that i'm caught up in it and personally involved i'm finding out just how corrupt it can be.

and the way they apply fine payments paid is strange, definitely some fuzzy math going on there.

[Lightfighter]

wade, that is correct... i don't think they'll piss test me again because of stribild will ALWAYS cause a false positive for THC. and yes, i met with the judge privately in chambers before the hearing, i disclosed to her, explained everything and presented her with supporting documentation... also told her i didn't want to disclose to the private probation company. one of the pending cases against them is by an HIV+ man, his PO officer called the mans exwife, told her it was a health risk to her children to be around their father. PPS has a horrible reputation, it's only a matter of town before they're ran out of Georgia the same way they were barred from Alabama.

the training manual says that all positive results should be confirmed
page 13
i offered to submit to a blood test, as they won't give false positive results... but the PO officer said that they don't use those tests (remember that it's a private corporation)

the judge didn't like his answer, she was obviously getting annoyed with him at that point.

Stribild will ALWAYS cause a false positive result for THC in urine. Even if you don't smoke. Be aware of that.

If you do use drugs... any drugs... cobicistat will cause that drug to remain detectable in your system for longer than normally expected. Be aware of that as well

Fact is, many HIV drugs will cause false positive results on urine testing.

Aight. So let me make sure I'm understanding. Stribild will cause a false THC positive on the specific test they use at the PO? 

However, the in depth testing will show it to not be THC. Is that correct?

[zach]

Aight. So let me make sure I'm understanding. Stribild will cause a false THC positive on the specific test they use at the PO? 

However, the in depth testing will show it to not be THC. Is that correct?

Stribild will cause a false positive result for THC and PCP on urinalysis tests. (piss in a cup)

specific test they use at the PO?

You're trying to understand it too narrowly. It wouldn't matter which manufacturer the test is, it's the type of test that is the issue.

The only reason I searched out the specific manual for the test I took was to cover my ass and undermine even the hint of an objection from the asshole PO.

Yes, a GC/MS or LC/MS test would rule out false positive.

[Lightfighter]

Stribild will cause a false positive result for THC and PCP on urinalysis tests. (piss in a cup)
 You're trying to understand it too narrowly. It wouldn't matter which manufacturer the test is, it's the type of test that is the issue.

The only reason I searched out the specific manual for the test I took was to cover my ass and undermine even the hint of an objection from the asshole PO.

Yes, a GC/MS or LC/MS test would rule out false positive.

Ahhhh. I was narrowing down the type of test. In the Army you piss in a cup but the testing can tell exactly what is showing. Sent to a lab blah blah. Hydrocodone vs heroin, the different amphetamines in ADHD meds, etc.

Just wondering if I should worry if/when the random list comes out. Doesn't seem that I'll have an issue.

[zach]

the piss tests differentiate between different drugs



each one of those colored strips react to a different drug (or metabolite of a drug).. each of the drug classes you mention would be detected. and then specified at the lab level.

the army will always confirm a reactive test, that's why they're sending it off to the lab. shit, they probably send all tests to the lab, reactive or not.

whats really going on man? you've disclosed to the army right, so that's not the issue? and you don't use any illegal drugs? if your concern is about a false positive messing you up... no, i doubt you have anything to worry about at all.

our situations are not analogous at all, i'm tied up in a corrupt good ol' boy system.

[Lightfighter]

I'm tracking our situations are different. I haven't heard that Stribild will cause a false positive. This is new to me.

Yes, the Army sends it all to a lab for testing. My wife used to be the person that sent it when she was in.

No, the Army doesn't know yet.

No I don't, nor have I ever used illegal drugs.

I was asking if false positives were inherent to these types of quick tests/on site type tests.

[zach]

No, the Army doesn't know yet.

you know sooner or later this is a bridge you'll have to cross, you'll handle it fine. i think i'm remembering you talking about this when you joined. somebody was a while back. 

I was asking if false positives were inherent to these types of quick tests/on site type tests.

yes, it is inherent.

i seem to remember that bocker has worked in a lab environment, and he's given a great explanation on the boards before about HIV testing, and why preliminary tests are designed to err on the side of false positive. i think it's the same sort of thing here.

[Lightfighter]

Yeah. I know I have to tell them. I am after I hit the 15 year mark early next year.

Cool. I was tracking that they were sensitive. I never knew Stribild would show false positive. That's what I was trying to discern. I'm not concerned about false positive with the Army. I have my script, and that would also force a reveal, which isn't ideal, but not the end of the world either.

Thanks for your help and time. I hope things get better with your PO situation and you can get out from under the shit.

[bocker3]

yes, it is inherent.

i seem to remember that bocker has worked in a lab environment, and he's given a great explanation on the boards before about HIV testing, and why preliminary tests are designed to err on the side of false positive. i think it's the same sort of thing here.

Basically (the science may be a little different per test, but is directionally correct) - a "screening" test is designed to identify a wider group of things.  For instance if you are looking for metabolite "A", but metabolites "B" and "C" are pretty similar to "A", they are likely to come up as positive.  That is why you should always follow up a positive screening test -- it will differentiate "A", from "B" or "C".
The reason is -- screening tests are cheaper than the confirmatory tests - so better to whittle down the population needing it, but you don't want to "Miss" a true positive, so you set the screening test to "overlook" for it.  The thing you don't want in a screening test is too many "false negatives" -- because you don't confirm those!!!

Mike