POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: wtfimpoz on October 11, 2010, 02:15:12 pm
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Let's imagine for a moment that HIV is cured. In this thought experiment, the virus is completely eliminated from the body, the resovoirs are drained, etc. What complications could one expect for the rest of their life? Doesn't a low nadir cd4 frequently correllate to diminished immune function as the diversity of white blood cells would be lessened? Is there cause to think that the dreaded "cognitive decline" would still be an issue? Any other major issues which may be a legacy of this virus?
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Let's hope to find out some day what will happen.
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Oh yes, please let's pull the negative out of a (theoretical) positive. Why think of the glass as half full when it could be thought to be filled with poison. ::)
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Let's imagine for a moment that HIV is cured. In this thought experiment, the virus is completely eliminated from the body, the resovoirs are drained, etc. What complications could one expect for the rest of their life? Doesn't a low nadir cd4 frequently correllate to diminished immune function as the diversity of white blood cells would be lessened? Is there cause to think that the dreaded "cognitive decline" would still be an issue? Any other major issues which may be a legacy of this virus?
I took your advice and imagined myself without HIV......... but I forgot to imagine my wife without it and I think she just reinfected me.
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I'm so damn good looking that HIV and cigarette breath is the only thing keeping me from being sexually harassed 24/7 so I don't really want to think about it .
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Let's imagine for a moment that HIV is cured. In this thought experiment, the virus is completely eliminated from the body, the resovoirs are drained, etc. What complications could one expect for the rest of their life? Doesn't a low nadir cd4 frequently correllate to diminished immune function as the diversity of white blood cells would be lessened? Is there cause to think that the dreaded "cognitive decline" would still be an issue? Any other major issues which may be a legacy of this virus?
Once a pozzie, always a pozzie in the eyes of the world.
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Are you saying you think the social stigma would remain even if the disease went away? That's interesting.
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Cross that happy bridge when I come to it.
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I'm so damn good looking that HIV and cigarette breath is the only thing keeping me from being sexually harassed 24/7 so I don't really want to think about it .
LMFAO!!!
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Oh yes, please let's pull the negative out of a (theoretical) positive. Why think of the glass as half full when it could be thought to be filled with poison. ::)
I'm trying to gauge the nature of the glass.
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huh
This is some debbie downer stuff.
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huh
This is some debbie downer stuff.
I'm still trying to understand why it's posted under "Research News & Studies"...
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I'm trying to gauge the nature of the glass.
Tempered?
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I'm still trying to understand why it's posted under "Research News & Studies"...
I wanted to know what the legacy of the virus would be even if it was cured. This seemed like the most sensible place for an understanding of long term side effects of HIV that are not necessarily dependent of the presence of virus anywhere in the body.
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I wanted to know what the legacy of the virus would be even if it was cured. This seemed like the most sensible place for an understanding of long term side effects of HIV that are not necessarily dependent of the presence of virus anywhere in the body.
I suppose that you can make up any scenario that would most suit your expected answer.
How the heck can this be answered when it hasn't happened. It's all useless conjecture.
You really need to find a hobby -- you are obsessing about HIV -- which is understandable in the newly diagnosed, but really -- focus on something tangible in your life.
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This is neither research nor news. Why is it posted in Research News & Studies?
We need a new category. Useless Twaddle. ::)
Moved.
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This is neither research nor news. Why is it posted in Research News & Studies?
We need a new category. Useless Twaddle. ::)
Moved.
Thank you.
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Useless Twaddle. ::)
Twaddle?? is that Rock speak? ;)
edited for poor spelling
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Let's imagine for a moment that HIV is cured. In this thought experiment, the virus is completely eliminated from the body, the resovoirs are drained, etc. What complications could one expect for the rest of their life? Doesn't a low nadir cd4 frequently correllate to diminished immune function as the diversity of white blood cells would be lessened? Is there cause to think that the dreaded "cognitive decline" would still be an issue? Any other major issues which may be a legacy of this virus?
If HIV is removed from your body, then you would be living the same life but without the meds. Whether or not your immune system would begin to regenerate back to the same levels as pre-infection is doubtful. I think the social stigma would definitely fade. It faded with the ARVs (to some degree) and if it was curable I think it would take on the same sort of stigma as say syphillis, or malaria. Not something anyone wants, but not the end of the line.
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If HIV is removed from your body, then you would be living the same life but without the meds. Whether or not your immune system would begin to regenerate back to the same levels as pre-infection is doubtful. I think the social stigma would definitely fade. It faded with the ARVs (to some degree) and if it was curable I think it would take on the same sort of stigma as say syphillis, or malaria. Not something anyone wants, but not the end of the line.
I think it would become a vicious circle, even if totally eradicated. We would just have a new breed of worried wells who would insist on the idea of still having HIV in their bodies --even if every other test proved the contrary. It is only human nature.
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I think it would become a vicious circle, even if totally eradicated. We would just have a new breed of worried wells who would insist on the idea of still having HIV in their bodies --even if every other test proved the contrary. It is only human nature.
What would we all do ? Toe Nail Fungas Community Forums just doesn't have that wow factor .
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If HIV is eradicated from my body I'm going to replace it with namaste!
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There is always magic maker syph .
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If HIV is eradicated from my body I'm going to replace it with namaste!
There is always magic maker syph .
I'm replacing mine with fundages. And I will start a forum for people who own funky oxygen chambers. It will be a blast. I already reserved the domain names: sevenbitterqueens.com and 7BQ.net
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I'm not sure why anyone would bother eradicating HIV in the first place. If it comes through the A/C ducts then even once you get it out of your body it will just get breathed in again, right?
I'm confused.
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I'm not sure why anyone would bother eradicating HIV in the first place. If it comes through the A/C ducts then even once you get it out of your body it will just get breathed in again, right?
I'm confused.
Or from them coke straws. Party girls all over the world will either reform or be pozzums forevah evah.
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to hiv or not to hiv .............. I really have a good laugh with you guys, some of you are so funny, the others, well , I guess you are the kind of people who will always find holes in everything , ( pun intended indeedy ).
Jay xx
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to hiv or not to hiv .............. I really have a good laugh with you guys, some of you are so funny, the others, well , I guess you are the kind of people who will always find holes in everything , ( pun intended indeedy ).
Jay xx
If you have HIV and don't learn to laugh at it sometime your head will explode , its a known scientific fact , I cant find the link right now but it is a fact trust me .
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I don't think this will EVER happen to someone that already has AIDS, they will always have it, and it is my understanding that any cure or vaccine would only be for the benefit of people who aren't infected, so they won't get infected, as for all of us, I kinda doubt they would be interested in saving any of us, I know that sounds kinda harsh, but, if any of this were true, I'm sure it will play-out-that-way........
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any cure or vaccine would only be for the benefit of people who aren't infected
a vaccine would protect people from getting infected by HIV when they are exposed to it
(ie no new cases)
a cure would kill off the HIV in infected people.
(ie a miracle of science!)
Since you'd still probably carry antibodies, I think you might always remain poz, but you would not be carrying an infectious disease anymore; therefore you would not be able to infect others, nor would it specifically cause any further damage to your system. The extra added benefit would be not having to take any more ARV meds! WooHoo!
personally, I've always thought a vaccine would come first, as it should be "easier" to block HIV entry than eradicating HIV with a cure. Would they continue looking for a "cure" if a vaccine was devised? I don't know. My guess is no. Would it mean another drastic change in how poz people continued to receive care? probably as the amount of infected would begin to decrease through the years.
If there was a cure, would there be residual issues in the previously infected? of course. for many the damage has already been done. Curing the HIV wouldn't stop the lipo, the bone density decay, and issues like that. probably cognitive issues would continue too. Hopefully treatments could be found to help with the remaining side effects of having been infected by HIV. It would be nice to have treatments to help with the remaining side effects of the meds too.
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I'm not sure why anyone would bother eradicating HIV in the first place. If it comes through the A/C ducts then even once you get it out of your body it will just get breathed in again, right?
I'm confused.
We would be safe, only women can get infected in this manner.
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If HIV is removed from your body, then you would be living the same life but without the meds. Whether or not your immune system would begin to regenerate back to the same levels as pre-infection is doubtful. I think the social stigma would definitely fade. It faded with the ARVs (to some degree) and if it was curable I think it would take on the same sort of stigma as say syphillis, or malaria. Not something anyone wants, but not the end of the line.
Thank you for your answer.
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a vaccine would protect people from getting infected by HIV when they are exposed to it
(ie no new cases)
a cure would kill off the HIV in infected people.
(ie a miracle of science!)
Since you'd still probably carry antibodies, I think you might always remain poz, but you would not be carrying an infectious disease anymore; therefore you would not be able to infect others, nor would it specifically cause any further damage to your system. The extra added benefit would be not having to take any more ARV meds! WooHoo!
personally, I've always thought a vaccine would come first, as it should be "easier" to block HIV entry than eradicating HIV with a cure. Would they continue looking for a "cure" if a vaccine was devised? I don't know. My guess is no. Would it mean another drastic change in how poz people continued to receive care? probably as the amount of infected would begin to decrease through the years.
If there was a cure, would there be residual issues in the previously infected? of course. for many the damage has already been done. Curing the HIV wouldn't stop the lipo, the bone density decay, and issues like that. probably cognitive issues would continue too. Hopefully treatments could be found to help with the remaining side effects of having been infected by HIV. It would be nice to have treatments to help with the remaining side effects of the meds too.
Thank you for your insight.
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It's a serious and legit question from the scientific standpoint, not twaddle. One of things that happens as people get older is that the pool of inexperienced or "naive" T cells and B cells that are needed to respond to new infectious challenges slowly declines, and this process is accelerated in HIV. When HIV is suppressed, reconstitution of naive T cells is the slowest part of immune recovery and eradication instead of suppression wouldn't necessarily speed that process up. It depends on the function of an organ called the thymus which shrinks during aging. The news that lessens the downer is that there is research being done to try and figure out how to make the thymus work better, there's some evidence human growth hormone can do it but that isn't an ideal treatment for a bunch of reasons, so other things like IL-7 are being looked at and are showing some promise. Also it would depend on how much attrition of immune system resources had occurred before the virus was gone. At the last report in January of this year, the CD4 count of the Berlin guy who received the CCR5-negative stem cell transplant and has now been off ART for close to three years with no HIV detected was reported to be around 800, the highest level since he was first diagnosed - that sounds pretty encouraging.
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Thank you very much RJNYC. I agree that its a valid post for the research forum, but I suppose anything other than an article telling us researchers did something in a test tube followed by 15 posts saying "oh joyous day, its going to be over any minute" gets pushed to the side.
And Ann, its not "useless twaddle". The purpose of the post was to speculate on whether or not the eradication of the virus would provide those who are infected with any beneift to their life, save the convenience of not having to take drugs. We're being told with increasing optimism that a major advance...a functional cure or possibly eradication...is on the horizon, held back mostly by a lack of funding and scientific interest. If thats the case, every one of us needs to be falling all over ourselves to find out what we can do to help. We need to be donating every spare penny we have to search for a cure, and making sure our friends and family do too. We need to be protesting something other than ADAP funding cuts and apartment subsidies. We can't reasonably do this until we have a strong reason to believe that a "cure" would actually provide us with meaningful benefits. If a "cure" involves a quintupple antiretroviral cocktail chased with dacogen and gemzar, the "cure" might be worse than a lifetime of treatment. If a "cure" means the deletion of the CCR5 receptor, leaving the "cured" prone to numerous cancers and still marginally infectious due to their slowly emptying resevoirs, we haven't really improved upon anything. Those of us who are infected with this disease need to do what we can to save outselves, and that involves directing our time, prayers and money at research that will actually help >>>US<<<.
In the most recent interview posted on Poz, Anthony Fauci seems to indicate that he is most optimistic about the possibility of a functional cure for those who begin treatment "three months, maybe six months" after infection. As a person who started treatment 5 months to the date after infection, I find that quote scary as hell, and most of you---who went years between infection and treatment---should too. This possibility of a "cure" only helps those in the future who are getting tested MONTHLY. Not Those who already have it. Not those who were infected by lying partners and never thought to get tested, or mystery infections or people infected in places where constant testing isn't feasible. Its basically a cure for health conscious upper class western gay men who intentionally put themselves at risk, and hypochondriacs. Speculation on the nature of post "cure" life allows us to direct our energies away from things that won't benefit us...like Fauci's vision of a functional cure...and towards something better.
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The purpose of the post was to speculate on whether or not the eradication of the virus would provide those who are infected with any beneift to their life, save the convenience of not having to take drugs.
Eradication's only benefit is "convenience" and the convenience is not having to take drugs? Is that what you meant to write? Sounds ridiculous to me.
We're being told with increasing optimism that a major advance...a functional cure or possibly eradication...is on the horizon, held back mostly by a lack of funding and scientific interest.
You missed a few news bulletins. The VIPs in AIDS research decided to change the tone of public relations on the research to include the possibility of a cure. As well as encourage researchers to continue looking for a cure. The objectives of research is much more nuanced and complicated than you let on, and research is more comprehensive than that which we hear about through public relations and news releases by scientists and institutions. Researching HAART is often portrayed as NOT researching a cure but I don't see that view as a true history of the research, for example.
The rest of your post is interesting to read but its all quite dense with statements that need to be reexamined. It seems to me, that in your mind, dark clouds are covering any good news about the present and future state of living with HIV.
"Its basically a cure for health conscious upper class western gay men who intentionally put themselves at risk, and hypochondriacs." Kinda of a pessimistic and bitter way of seeing things, no?
And why make Anthony Fauci into the enemy?
I understand you have a feeling of rage but its seems to be targeted a bit scattershot. Kinda shoot the messenger, somehow.
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have no animosity towards fauci. If anything, I'm greatful for his honesty in explaining to us that current research is closer towards a functional cure, and that a functional cure is most beneficial to those who began treatment "three months, maybe six months" after infection. It's always helpful to have the honest opinion of someone like himself, as it gives the rest if us some idea as to what we should be setting our sights on. If I understood him correctly, I'd say we should be setting our sights on something other than a functional cure.
As for whether or not eradications benefit is purely from a financial or convenience standpoint, I see no reason why this speculation may be ridiculous. We don't know what causes some of the worst long term problems if HIV, and there is some reason to believe they are the result of a wrecking ball set in motion at seroconversion. Emptying near-dormant virus from resevoirs may not yield a tangible benefit.