POZ Community Forums
Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: Dachshund on October 17, 2007, 11:42:49 am
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This is almost painful to watch and if they weren't so mean-spirited almost makes you feel sorry for all the closeted, conservative, republicans. You do have to feel sorry for the families. It does seem to explain an undercurrent of anger and hostility that seems to permeate the very being of the closeted, conservative, mo. Sad very sad.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/17/matt-lauers-larry-craig-_n_68773.html
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"I have a medical discharge based on my feet." Oh, Senator Craig, those feet. LOL
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He has a medical discharge based on his feet? Well there you go, he cannot control his feet, case closed.
Milker.
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I forced myself. It was excruciating. Beyond embarrassing. Extraordinarily painful - especially for his wife. Why on earth they decided to subject themselves to prolonging this agony is a question worth asking. And the answer, I think, is: they have to. At this point in their lives, to allow the possibility that Craig is indeed homosexual, that he has sustained, lived, internalized a fundamental lie for his entire life, and involved his wife and children in that lie, would be to destroy themselves. I am not going to exonerate the man from hypocrisy because it is impossible. But I do think his problem is far deeper.
He grew up in a different time, and a different place, where even the possibility of being gay was inconceivable. I don't think he even thinks of himself as gay, or has any idea what being gay might actually mean. I think he thinks of his sexual orientation as a "lifestyle" (to use that hideous term Lauer kept referring to) that can be overcome the way one overcomes smoking or poor eating or sexual compulsion. And he constructed an identity in opposition to this "lifestyle" early, out of pain and defensiveness and terrible fear. He is now wedded to this life he created - more than to his wife, which is why she was kept in the dark for two months after the arrest, as he went through the terror of feeling caught finally in his own contradiction. He cannot break free of it at this point without psychic collapse. And so, even though it becomes absurd to everyone around them, the Craigs keep going. They have no choice, apart from total breakdown.
If you want an argument for why the cause for gay visibility, dignity and equality is necessary and indeed noble, just watch that interview again.
Craig was seeking in that toilet stall a connection, a shard of intimacy, that the world would not give him, or that he could not give himself. No one should have to live without that intimacy and dignity - no one. Living a life like that - a deeply lonely, compromised, painful interior existence - is a very sophisticated form of hell. No human can keep it up for ever. No human should have to keep it up for ever.
He is a hypocrite; and he made his choices. I am not going to dispute that. His voting record helped sustain the misery for others that he lived with himself. He is for ever responsible for that.
But he is also a victim. And to see such a victim's pain exposed brutally in a public restroom pains me. He needs help. So do millions of others. It is just a tragedy that the party that Craig belongs to is committed to prolonging the pain and the denial of so many people - in order to appease the casual fears of the insecure, and to use those fears to sustain political power. In that sense, Craig has long been a hapless tool of those who have made him so miserable and so alone for so long. One day, if we keep working, that misery will recede for some. If it recedes for one person, it will be worth it.
~Andrew Sullivan
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They've got everything but a Christmas tree and carols going on in that family values setting with Lauer.
I can't quite see where Craig's feet are though in relation to Lauer's.
Those who've said that overall this is a very sad scene are right. As reprehensible, hypocritical and disgusting as his actions have been towards gays in the past, (and who knows, will be again if he has the opportunity), this is a very sad human scene. Pity the wife and family being dragged through this mess and having to swear to his lies.
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I felt the same way when Hillary and the entire Clinton cabinet swore there was no way Willy was having sex with interns or abusing other women in the white house down the hall from Hillary . Oh yeah,she blamed it on the right wing conspiracy. hahaha. Now I am pretty sure they knew Willy was poking everything that walked no matter how fat or ugly,but they lied just like this guy is lying, and as we all know,the coverup causes more problems than the action being covered up. I just cant believe such a blatant case of sexual harassment was ignored by the left.
Its what most people do when their personal lives are exposed. Its the way it has always been. Its been part of US politics since our Founding Fathers.
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I felt the same way when Hillary and the entire Clinton cabinet swore there was no way Willy was having sex with interns or abusing other women in the white house down the hall from Hillary . Oh yeah,she blamed it on the right wing conspiracy. hahaha. Now I am pretty sure they knew Willy was poking everything that walked no matter how fat or ugly,but they lied just like this guy is lying, and as we all know,the coverup causes more problems than the action being covered up. I just cant believe such a blatant case of sexual harassment was ignored by the left.
Its what most people do when their personal lives are exposed. Its the way it has always been. Its been part of US politics since our Founding Fathers.
LOL. My word. You'll find a way to insert the Clintons into anything. They're like your version of the Qur'an. Anything you need to learn or answer can be found in the Clintons. ;D
/edited to respell Qur'an as I was on the toilet before/
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Its what most people do when their personal lives are exposed. Its the way it has always been. Its been part of US politics since our Founding Fathers.
What about all the closeted, conservative, men who aren't in politics? How can they sit across from their families every night at dinner living the lie. These are the guys who end up in dirty bookstores and public restrooms risking the health of their spouses and Bill and Hillary didn't have much to do with that. In fact I think this type of behavior has been going on long before the Clintons were around. Like I said before, it's so sad to witness what anger and shame can do to sexually repressed men. One thing you can say about ol' Bill is that he wasn't repressed. It drives conservatives crazy that ol' liberal Bill is all man and that conservatives that get caught like men. Tough for a war party to keep getting caught with their pants down in the men's rooms.
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LOL,Hal,that was a good one. Just pointing that we have hypocrites on both sides. Larry gave me the creeps long before he started his stall stuff. I find it very humorous that you consider themarried man who is abusing interns and other women in the white house more noble than a guy trying find a nice cock to suck in the mens room. They are just two horny guys, but both demonstrated very bad judgement. I dont want either one of these clowns having anything to do with my government. I have just as difficult a time trying to figure out why a public figure would be trying get headsets off young girls in the oval office as I do a public figure looking for a headset in a mens restroom, an airport restroom.
Clinton is just too much too pass up,its the gift that keeps on giving. I cant wait till Obama wins a primary,then things will get really nasty. Bill and Hill will be starting the rumors of him being a Muslim and dating white women again,and of course they will blame it on the republicans.
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Deflect away ol' chap but the thread is about the very sad world of closeted, conservative, gay men. Not politics, not the Clintons, but the weird world of men who choose to live in the closet. Don't you find it sad that men live their lives like that, lying to their families?
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its no more tragic than the married guy who is screwing other women(especially a guy who is doing it in his own house,the white house.) At least Larry had the decency to look for sex outside of the house his wife was in.(just kidding). I can honestly say I usually dont think about sex in mens rooms,not my style.
Both are in the closet. Neither are to be trusted. If you cheat on your husband or wife,no matter who you do it with,you have broken a partnership.
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Bill Clinton is so 1990's. Lets talk about today..in the now. If Clinton screws up tomorrow..fine let the talk begin. In the meantime..why beat a dead horse. Larry Craig is doing his family, himself and his party a disservice today.
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BLAME THE CLINTONS!
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its no more tragic than the married guy who is screwing other women(especially a guy who is doing it in his own house,the white house.) At least Larry had the decency to look for sex outside of the house his wife was in.(just kidding). I can honestly say I usually dont think about sex in mens rooms,not my style.
Both are in the closet. Neither are to be trusted. If you cheat on your husband or wife,no matter who you do it with,you have broken a partnership.
yes, it's always an aberration when a conservative gets caught giving blowjobs. funny how liberals never get outed for being gay. it's not just the men's room where the closeted male goes to get his rocks off. wonder how the wife would react if she new her hubby likes to beat his meat to gay porn?
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not blaming anyone. Only brought up Clinton cause so many here thought it was OK for Willy to do young girls who worked for him and other women while married. I see no difference in what Larry is putting his family through and what willy put his family through. He had his wife and cabinet lying for him just like Larry. Larry is just out trying to get some dick in a restroom. Both were married,both are lying lowlifes. whats the difference?
How is Larry doing his party a disservice? He is a politician. A successful politician is a person who is able to blame his mistakes on others and take credit for other's achievements.
So how is Larry doing his party a disservice? Was Barney doing the Dems a disservice when his boyfriend was running a whore house out of his townhouse? Didnt think so.
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President trumps Senator. ;D
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not blaming anyone. Only brought up Clinton cause so many here thought it was OK for Willy to do young girls who worked for him and other women while married. I see no difference in what Larry is putting his family through and what willy put his family through. He had his wife and cabinet lying for him just like Larry. Larry is just out trying to get some dick in a restroom. Both were married,both are lying lowlifes. whats the difference?
How is Larry doing his party a disservice? He is a politician. A successful politician is a person who is able to blame his mistakes on others and take credit for other's achievements.
So how is Larry doing his party a disservice? Was Barney doing the Dems a disservice when his boyfriend was running a whore house out of his townhouse? Didnt think so.
Don't worry we understand the desire and need of the conservative male to somehow try to equate the two. It's all you got left.
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Craig: I'm not gay or bisexual, not that there is anything wrong with that.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/17/craig-im-not-gay-or-bis_n_68808.html
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whatever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP5FunbZvJ8
I understand, its ok to cheat on your wife with another woman but not another man. Why cant you just admit they are both scumbags? They each broke a sacred contract with their spouse. One did it down the hall from his wifes bedroom and the other guy goes to public restrooms,thats the only difference I see.
I think they both should have been tossed,but how can anyone who defended Willys sexual advances on anything with two legs and breasts while in the white house condemn a guy out looking for some dick? I dont get it.
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I can't quite see where Craig's feet are though in relation to Lauer's.
Up Matt Laure's pant leg ....LOL
Ray
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whatever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP5FunbZvJ8
I understand, its ok to cheat on your wife with another woman but not another man. Why cant you just admit they are both scumbags? They each broke a sacred contract with their spouse. One did it down the hall from his wifes bedroom and the other guy goes to public restrooms,thats the only difference I see.
I think they both should have been tossed,but how can anyone who defended Willys sexual advances on anything with two legs and breasts while in the white house condemn a guy out looking for some dick? I dont get it.
Do all closeted conservative gay men use the Willy defense? We aren't defending Bill, we are discussing the preponderance of closeted homosexuals that are conservative. I would think the right would rejoice that Bill and Hillary continue to remain married. They are practising what you guys preach, no matter what happens you must preserve the sanctity of marriage. They should be the poster couple for the family values crew. As a dutiful wife she forgave his transgressions in order to save the marriage. Dobson forgave the adulterous, thrice married Gingrich. You should rejoice in their marriage instead of denigrating it...God don't like ugly.
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Craig: I'm not gay or bisexual, not that there is anything wrong with that.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/17/craig-im-not-gay-or-bis_n_68808.html
Oh, that poor, poor wife of his....
"And some people think he pleaded guilty to homosexual activity when, in fact, he did not."
Completely side-stepping the fact that he did so in an effort to bury the whole thing as quickly as possible.
These two sound like a promo for "So You Think You Can Dance (Around the Truth)?"
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These two sound like a promo for "So You Think You Can Dance (Around the Truth)?"
Good one.
The whole situation of married gay men is sad. I speak from experience, not me of course, but my ex was married for 5 years. He almost killed himself. But fortunately he realized who he was and took the necessary step to live his life for who he was and ended the marriage. Of course he ended our relationship for his uncut 21yr old Hispanic student. But at least he did accept who he was.
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Of course he ended our relationship for his uncut 21yr old Hispanic student. But at least he did accept who he was.
Proof positive that he truly did embrace his homosexuality.
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only the daily show can do this justice. click on the caught in the bathroom pt. 2.
PRICELESS!
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/index.jhtml
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I still like his excuse that he was just picking up some toilet paper from the restroom floor. a restroom in an airport. Like Denis Leary said on Leno, "If you see a twenty dollar bill on the floor in an airport restroom,you dont pick it up,if you drop your wallet on the restroom floor,you leave it."
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just wondering if it is just as sad being gay and being married to a woman as being heterosexual and living as a gay? Its all absurd and nonsensical. Is it more difficult for a woman to live with a husband who is fukcing or trying to fuck every woman he encounters in front of the whole world, or a husband who has sex with men in public restrooms?
Or how difficult is it for a man in a gay marriage to have his partner doing the restroom scene with other men or screwing a woman on the side. I have to think they are equalling upsetting and trying to compare which is worse is like playing the game "whats the worst way to die". It doesnt matter cause the ending is the same.
I understand the reason most here are upset with Craigs ill fated attempt at getting some dick is the hypocrisy of the situation. Here is a guy who has been against everything gay as a lawmaker,yet he is out trying to have some of the fun,if its fun in a public restroom at an airport. Lets not forget he wasnt actually caught with dick in mouth just foot tapping,whatever that is. I can't imagine any situation that would take your feet out of your own stall unintentionally, or why any sane person would pick up a piece of toilet paper from the floor in the restroom.
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Dunno, Jack, I think you can't quite equate the two. When a person of any gender discovers they are married to someone who has been lying about their sexuality, it adds a whole new dimension to the betrayal when that person has strayed from the marriage bed. I know if this happened to me, I would feel like I had been used as a smokescreen for my partner's closet door. It would add insult to injury.
But we do agree on one thing - a partner who goes behind the other's back for sexual gratification is ... well, not a very nice person. To find out that the sexual orientation basis for your entire marriage is a lie makes it worse.
But maybe that's just me.
Ann
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Dunno, Jack, I think you can't quite equate the two. When a person of any gender discovers they are married to someone who has been lying about their sexuality, it adds a whole new dimension to the betrayal when that person has strayed from the marriage bed. I know if this happened to me, I would feel like I had been used as a smokescreen for my partner's closet door. It would add insult to injury.
But we do agree on one thing - a partner who goes behind the other's back for sexual gratification is ... well, not a very nice person. To find out that the sexual orientation basis for your entire marriage is a lie makes it worse.
But maybe that's just me.
Ann
I would think that would be the way it is. However, my ex-partner's wife was very supportive of him when they divorced and he even was the organist for her second marriage. Part of it may be due to the fact that he was faithful while they were married. (funny how that faithfulness wasn't there for me, but I am not bitter.... >:( )
I also have 2 or 3 other friends who remained close with their spouse after they came out as gay. I wonder if it is easier for the spouse to know that there really wasn't anything that he or she could do to make the marriage work?
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I guess we can twist logic around enough to where it makes us comfortable to justify anything we do. I guess you would have to ask a wife what would upset her more. Cheating on them with a man or a woman. Or maybe, how would you feel if someone was using you for cover to hide their sexuality?
Like I said men have a desire and need to equate the two to justify their actions. Sorta like that, "well a hole is just a hole" argument.
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I also have 2 or 3 other friends who remained close with their spouse after they came out as gay. I wonder if it is easier for the spouse to know that there really wasn't anything that he or she could do to make the marriage work?
You didn't lose a husband, you gained a girlfriend.
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just wondering if it is just as sad being gay and being married to a woman as being heterosexual and living as a gay?
so there's some closeted hetero population i don't know about?
come out, guys...be openly hetero. i promise you: you'll find the world much more accepting than you expect.
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I wish Matt would have brought this full circle and ask if Craig would now reconsider his stance on gay marriage.
At that point I'd love to have seen Craig fall back on the "save the traditional marriage" crapola.
A personal note... When I first came out in my younger years, I most often was with married men. The reason they liked me, some said, was that I "looked" straight and they didnt feel threatened being seen with me in public. I dated a married minister on and off for 5 years. He went as far as to ask me over to his house to meet his family, just so they would not think it strange "if" we were ever seen together by someone else that knew the family. The extent he would go to, to keep the sex and protect his "other" life, had no limits.
Larry Craig is very typical. And his wife's reactions are just as typical for a spouse that is aware of the truth, but can not face it.
All too typical...
I've grown up a lot since then. Now I'd never mess around with someone that I knew was in a relationship, Gay or straight.
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I wonder why mindless Matt didnt ask Larry if had been tested for HIV?
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I wonder why mindless Matt didnt ask Larry if had been tested for HIV?
Because you can't get HIV from picking up toilet paper. You get it from picking up boys.
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I wonder where the cash for his legal defense is coming from,( probablly right out of whatever funds hes managed to put away from his marvelous career ) as we saw in the good ol' OJ trial , High profile trials tend to run well into 6 figures.... so hes at the end of his career, and pissing away the life savings in order to make a moot point that nobody will buy, his pathetic bullshit will probablly bankrupt the family , and probablly just leave him as a bad joke in the shithouse...
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I wonder where the cash for his legal defense is coming from,
They’ll probably get the monies from the savings of Craig’s vote and the other Religious Right Conservatives that flat funded “Ryan White.”
Jack, you truly are obsessed with Bill Clinton. Sometimes I feel you’re jealous that it was Monica on her knees in the Oval office and not you.
Would you have told your wife or daughters that you gave head to Billy‘s Willy? Have you ever had that kind of conversation with your family? Would you have that kind of conversation with your family/friends? What would they think?
In my opinion, any guy that looks for or enjoys sex in a public toilet is a disgusting pervert. A dirty filthy public toilet, well, to me is just not a turn on. Now my Ex on the other hand it was his home away from home.
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defense for what? he accused of a misdemeanor,I wouldnt think that kind of trial would cost much at all.
terry,sorry to disappoint you but Willy and his willy do nothing for me nor does his wife. They give me the creeps,but then all politicians give me the creeps
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defense for what? he accused of a misdemeanor,I wouldnt think that kind of trial would cost much at all.
terry,sorry to disappoint you but Willy and his willy do nothing for me nor does his wife. They give me the creeps,but then all politicians give me the creeps
Yup,
If he had taken it to court he would have easily beaten it, instead of trying to put up this shitstorm, which should go down in the Encylopedia Fucktanica under " "Elaborations of A Bad Liar "
Seriously, it sounds like a pretty piss poor case from a legal standpoint, if he had a Gonad to his name he would have hired some uptight little pus bag lawyer and get the whole thing tossed out of court, instead of pleading it out like a gross old bathroom stall perv, possibly even making some points about being targeted in a Political Shithouse Sting ....
Spin Spin Baby
L