Author Topic: I'm poz, she's not (Read 8648 times)

wishihadacat · « **on:** January 21, 2007, 10:54:32 am »

I've been HIV positive for 27 years, and for the last 20, married to an HIV neg spouse whom I love very much but who fears any intimate contact. Don't want to break up the marriage, but needless to say, it can be depressing, to say the least. I'd love to find a poz female in a similar situation for mutual support and friendship "with extras." Anyone out there with thoughts on this?

koi1 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2007, 11:07:16 am »

Would your wife be open to this? Othewise, it sounds like cheating to me.

Have you tried having her learn the facts of transmission? Your post says any intimate contact. So you basically don't have any sort of sex with her right?

I know that would not be the life for me. But that is just me. I would prefere to find someone else where I could have a complete relationship with.

rob

dtwpuck · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2007, 11:10:46 am »

Twenty years of no intimacy is not a marriage in my opinion. Sorry to be so blunt, but humans beings need physical intimacy to be happy. You have a very long time invested in this relationship, and I am sure you love her. But I personally would have left a long long time ago. There is nothing in the world that would make me want to stay with a spouse who is afraid of me.

wishihadacat · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2007, 12:15:09 pm »

It hasn't been easy, to be sure, but apart from the lack of physical intimacy, we actually have a pretty great marriage. Would it be cheating? That's a tougher question. Is it possible to "cheat" on someone you don't have sex with at all? My view of it is that there must be at least one or two reasonably sane women out there who are in similar straits - I just haven't found them yet. Is it possible to have phyisical intimacy without becoming so emotaionally attached that the "friendship" poses a threat to on's marriage? I'd like to believe that it can be done, provided both partners understand the limits inherent in such a relationship. We're all on new ground on this one.

twofires · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2007, 12:21:17 pm »

>Twenty years of no intimacy is not a marriage in my opinion

I concur

skeebo1969 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2007, 01:10:34 pm »

I've been out of a non affectionate marriage now for close to three years. This while I was negative and let me tell you I was miserable. Before you seek affection else where, maybe you should take some sort of action in your marriage. If it cannot be fixed then maybe a change is necessary.

For me, I know I was part of the problem even though I was the more affectionate one in my marriage.

I assume you are of good health... Why waste it if she won't give you what you need? I'm not just talking sex either; I'm not that shallow. I don't know man, I am not aware of the dynamics of your relationship. All I do know is the day I take my last breath I do not want to have any regrets or wishes that I did something different....

Either way I wish you the best.

BTW, I have recently started a relationship with a positive woman and it is a beautiful thing when you do have that connection.

Take care.

Thomas

Teresa · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2007, 01:42:13 pm »

My hubby is poz and I'm not. We found out 8 months ago and in that time we have had sex maybe 4 times. A big change from what it was before we found out. He is so afraid of giving it me. I have had him read the lessons here and talk to his Dr about it, but he still has his fears. So you see I am kinda in the same boat as you only I'm the negative half.

Would I consider the thought of trying to find a negative man to have sex with...No. If I found out out hubby found a positive woman to have sex with just because she was positive would I consider that cheating...you betcha. But that is just me.

Hugs
Teresa

wishihadacat · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2007, 04:37:35 pm »

Teresa, your husband sounds like a good guy; when I first tested positive back in the '80s, I was terribly concerned about giving it to my wife, and that terrible possibility still drives my thinking, as it should any caring partner. Would I prefer that we had safe sex at least once in a while? You bet! As to whether having sex with another poz woman constitutes cheating under these circumstances, I can't agree with you. All of us are pilgrims in this undiscovered country, but I can tell you that not having physical intimacy with anyone is such an extremely isolating experience that it if its necessary to find it outside of the marriage in order to save the marriage it can make sense, as long as we are conscious of what we are doing.

Why stay in a marriage with someone you are not physically intimate with? Because if you are both otherwise happy - in other words, if you have enough emotional intimacy and acceptance to transcend the negative impact of not being physically intimate, why give that up?

That's just my view, obviously.

wishihadacat · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2007, 04:43:04 pm »

You are quite right, Thomas: the dyamics of every relationship are unique. In the end we all have to do what we think is right, and hope that we've made the right call...

Queen Tokelove · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2007, 04:53:16 pm »

Interesting topic. Not even sure I can add anything. When my hubby found out I was poz, he ran for the border. I have never heard from him since. Oh, well, 2 tears in a bucket...I use to deal w/ a married man back in the day but found I was not happy with the situation because I wanted more. Yeah sex was magnificent at first but then I wanted him to myself but that could never happen cause he had time invested with the wifey or in other words it was cheaper to keep her than go thru with a messy divorce.

Teresa · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2007, 05:29:32 pm »

If you have an open marriage then thats different. I dont so if hubby had sex with anyone else, no matter what his reason was, that would be cheating. But again thats just the way I feel about it.
Hope things work out for ya.

Hugs
Teresa

wishihadacat · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2007, 05:38:05 pm »

Akasha, your experience - not wanting to share him with wifey - is the pitfall: we want more, and when we can't get it, it's a bummer.

zeb · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2007, 05:40:02 pm »

according to my opinion you really have a serious problem.
You want physical intimacy and your partner doesn't.

You really have to work this out with your partner because you both have needs.
A marriage is also physical intimacy if you ask me.

If you go shopping around for satisfying your needs it will be cheating, on the other hand if your partner won't offer you intimacy than she's not really taking part or investing in this marriage. So both of you have a responsibility to solve this.

zeb

ACinKC · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2007, 09:25:59 pm »

If she doesnt know youre doing it it's cheating. I personally think you need to take some sort of action within your marriage, if she feels the same way an open relationship is a possibility. But I kind of take offense to someone "TROLLING" for some poontang on this site. It degrades it in my opinion. Now keep in mind that I got this disease by cheating on my wife. I am now divorced and remarried to the woman who is my soulmate in life. Try working on your marriage some more 20 years is alot to throw away and believe me once you start down the cheating path you are throwing it away.

koi1 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2007, 09:39:00 pm »

Yeah, looks like you both need to shit or get off the pot. I know I would much rather be alone than to be with someone who is afraid to touch me. Again, I am not judging her. She has the right to not want intimate contact with you. But you also have the right to find a complete marriage. I think that what most of us are getting at is the honesty factor. Remember that a new, more fulfilling, life could be awainting you both should you decide to part ways or stay together and achieve true intimacy.

rob

DanKenny · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2007, 09:58:56 pm »

Hi Wish,

I really sympathize with your situation. And I agree with all previous contributions that it is pathetic and needs a change. But I can't help but wonder about a few things?

1. Outside of HIV, are there other issues in the relationship - trust, communication, openness, etc -- that would inhibit your ex's intimacy with you?

2. was the change dramatic -- can you remember some of the good ol days...what seemed to drive her passion in you?

3 How old are you both -- i ask because age is related to levels of intimacy, given the associated hormonal changes. For some couples, menopause affects desire, etc.

I think the length of your marriage speaks volumes and indicates some level of commitment on your part. I would agree that hooking up with another person (poz or neg) would constitute cheating. Instead, I suggest you talk to your wife and express your needs for more intimacy, and see where that leads. Play that lovely song to her....."you've lost that lovely feeling...." and take her dancing...who knows, the sparks might fly again.

Take care,....DK

wishihadacat · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2007, 04:38:26 am »

The reaction that seeking intimacy outside of the marriage is "trolling" for "poontang" under these circumstances is strikingly shallow to me - I've been living (knowingly) with HIV for 20 years, and based on risk behavior I have had it for 27, and I soldiered on for most of that time without seeking sexual intimacy anywhere elsewhere. Back in the '80s, after I tested poz, I joined a support group comprised of 7 gay men and myself because there NO straight men or women at that time sober and/or aware enough to seek or give support to each other. But having your spouse reject your body as tainted inevitibly becomes terribly depressing and in the long run it can absolutely kill your sense of self-esteem, and it is in that light - having sought both community and professional support - that the situation should be viewed. We did make appropriate efforts to eliminate or alleviate some of her fear, but she rejects the idea of intercourse - protected or not - as an unsatisfactory risk. In other words, her unyielding bottom line is "no intercourse at all is safe" yet we have nonetheless have stayed together for 20 years because we are otherwise compatible and communicate on every level with absolute honesty, and I daresay that I have held my end up over the years.
We are now older - in our 50's - and as many of you know, women commonly lose interest in sex after menopause. Try to imagine that before you load your slingshots.

In this community, we need to support each other, and that means not merely honesty, but understanding. I do value your thoughts on this, but calling it "trolling" suggests that you haven't considered that the experience of others might be different from your own and it reflects poorly on us all. You simply don't know what my life has been like; my experience may not be the same as yours. Defensive? You bet. Justifiably defensive? I think so.

With that in mind, I think that I can safely say that if your spouse absolutely cannot and does not accept your body, you either have to transcend that rejection or work around it, and it is the latter course that I now contemplate because transcendence of our human sexuality is extremely difficult - a godlike state that is simply unrealistic, if not impossible to achieve, while we inhabit our testosterone-producing mortal shells. As I stated before, I'm trying to save myself - and thus our marriage - not destroy it. Got it?

wishihadacat · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2007, 04:42:38 am »

...and thanks, DK. You do seem to have a handle on the problem.

skeebo1969 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2007, 09:27:39 am »

Quote from: wishihadacat on January 22, 2007, 04:38:26 am

Try to imagine that before you load your slingshots.

In this community, we need to support each other, and that means not merely honesty, but understanding. I do value your thoughts on this, but calling it "trolling" suggests that you haven't considered that the experience of others might be different from your own and it reflects poorly on us all. You simply don't know what my life has been like; my experience may not be the same as yours. Defensive? You bet. Justifiably defensive? I think so.

With that in mind, I think that I can safely say that if your spouse absolutely cannot and does not accept your body, you either have to transcend that rejection or work around it, and it is the latter course that I now contemplate because transcendence of our human sexuality is extremely difficult - a godlike state that is simply unrealistic, if not impossible to achieve, while we inhabit our testosterone-producing mortal shells. As I stated before, I'm trying to save myself - and thus our marriage - not destroy it. Got it?

Wish, I want to commend you for being frank and honest. I don't think you are trolling. Just understand that while this is a "community" it is a reflection of the real world. Support can sometimes be conditional and I have been guilty of this myself unfortunately, just do not let it sway you from continuing to be open here so that you can get a range of opinions on the subject. In defense of AC/KC, I do understand where he was coming from, but now that you have clarified your situation I think it is better understood by all of us.

As you are aware, only you can make the ultimate decision on what to do. Whatever it is I hope you find happiness regardless. BTW, I look forward to hearing more from you.

Goodluck!

Thomas

wishihadacat · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2007, 10:04:55 am »

Thanks, Thomas. I do intend to stick around, btw.

Christine · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:55:30 am »

Wish,
What would happen, or how would you deal with it, if you met a poz woman, started to have sexual relations, then fell in love with her?

Would you stay in your marriage? Would you divorce?

Will your wife know that you are going outside of the relationship?

I can understand not wanting to change the comfort level of your relationship. I guess I would wish for both you and your wife to have great love and passion along with the comfort which you have now.

Christine

wishihadacat · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2007, 12:20:25 pm »

It's a difficult siutation to deal with, Christine. There was a time when we considered splitting, but I am determined to make our marriage work. Should Ms. Special Friend come along, we can only be honest with each other and try to understand the limits of an extramarital relationship under these circumstances. I'm not interested in causing anyone any pain or sadness, and I wouldn't become involved with anyone, on any level, without mutual understanding and agreement. Is there a risk of falling in love with someone else? Undoubtedly, and it would be foolish to assume otherwise. Communication and honesty are paramount in my life. I do know, however, that if I continue to allow myself to feel tainted and rejected, as I did in the past, the depression it caused in the past would return, and that depression would erode at our marriage, as it did before I decided to do something about it.

ACinKC · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2007, 12:28:11 pm »

" I'd love to find a poz female in a similar situation for mutual support and friendship "with extras." Anyone out there with thoughts on this?"

This is the quote that led me to believe you are trolling for women on this board. As I re-read it, it can be said that you were just asking our opinions as to what you should do about finding a woman like this. If this is the case I apologize for jumping the gun on the "trolling" aspect of your situation.

In regards to my advice, it stands as i gave it. I dont know what your life has been like, but you asked me for my thoughts on this and I can only give you my thoughts based on MY life experiences. And based on my experiences it's not a good decision. Please don't ask for my thoughts and then tell me they are wrong based on what you want to believe. If you are looking for only a big pat on the back and a go get em tiger then I suggest you look elsewhere. What you will get here is a wide range of thoughts as to what you should do. Remember, you asked the question. Consider me on the "i wouldnt do it if I were you" end of the range, thats all. I dont have anything against you or what you decide to do. I will support you as best I can within my personal boundaries.

While i understand being rejected by your spouse can kill your self esteem (its one of the reasons im here), just think of what you will be doing to HER self esteem, when she finds out your cheating and lying to her. There are 2 sides to this problem and I think you are failing to see the other side. Give her the chance to get out, give her the chance to say ok have sex with other women but I want to approve of who, give her the chance to say maybe its time you and i reconnect. By doing what you are doing you are denying her those choices and I feel that as a self proclaimed loving husband these are the very choices you SHOULD be giving her. You 2 sound like best friends, not husband and wife, and it may be that THAT is your path. But give her the RESPECT that she has shown you by sticking by you for 20 years! In my opinion, which is what you asked for, you are showing her a serious lack of respect by finding a friend with extras. I seriously doubt she will look at you cheating as a way to save yourself and your marriage!

And the questions Christine poses are VERY GOOD ONES! And i too wish the best for you I really do. I hope you find the happiness that everyone in life deserves.

ACinKC · « **Reply #23 on:** January 22, 2007, 12:29:25 pm »

Quote from: wishihadacat on January 22, 2007, 12:20:25 pm

Communication and honesty are paramount in my life.

I am sorry but I dont know quite how you make this statement while at the same time discussing a secret extramarital affair.

wishihadacat · « **Reply #24 on:** January 22, 2007, 12:50:01 pm »

Thanks, AC, for your considered and considerate reply. Christine's questions are indeed good ones, and your comments on the issue are no less reasonable. As for the second question, which seems to suggest some hipocrisy on my part, rest assured that w knows that I have online friends. What will happen? Who knows? In 1988, when I received the good news that I had "the gift that keeps on giving", I hoped and prayed that I would have another five years of life. That was 19 years ago.

Keep in mind that not only did she stand by me, but I stood by her.

We can only do the best we can, with the best intentions. Life expects no more from any of us.

Esquare · « **Reply #25 on:** January 22, 2007, 02:30:27 pm »

Good luck with it man. I'd consider talking with your wife about it all rather than risk her getting half of your shit because that will end up being the outcome. Take her to the doctor with you to discuss transmission issues with an expert rather than just relying on what you have told her and what she will read over the internet. I think that is important. My wife is getting to the point where she is relaxed again and I don't think that would be possible without her seeing my doctor and nurse and them discussing transmission of the virus and how to protect during sex with her. She wouldn't trust the internet either. The Johns Hopkins book on Living with HIV drills transmission into your head pretty good. If she is a reader that could work. You can order it off amazon.com. Good luck.

wishihadacat · « **Reply #26 on:** January 22, 2007, 03:44:48 pm »

Esq, you are absolutely correct about seeing docs together. Tried that repeatedly over the years, but n.g. In fact, one idiotic shrink actually suggested that I learn to accept sex without intercourse, believe it or not. I haven't seen the Johns Hopkins material. I suppose that the question is how long you have to wait, and how many many doctors do you have to see, before you throw in the towel. Hate to put this out there, but it brings tears to my eyes...

wishihadacat · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2007, 03:58:07 pm »

...and for all of us, I cry.

ACinKC · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2007, 04:00:55 pm »

Don't cry for me man! Im happy as a fucking LARK!

yowsaa · « **Reply #29 on:** January 22, 2007, 11:49:26 pm »

Quote from: ACinKC on January 22, 2007, 04:00:55 pm

Im happy as a fucking LARK!

Done my share of banging, but never fucked a LARK yet. Sounds fun

Wish,
Maybe you need to discuss an open marriage ? Sounds like you married my ex.

wishihadacat · « **Reply #30 on:** January 23, 2007, 05:38:21 am »

Stay away from those larks - they can be real peckerheads.

skeebo1969 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 23, 2007, 08:01:43 am »

Here in Florida bestiality is a felony. Besides I know there are a few here that would take offense at choosing such a small defenseless bird:

Now if you can tell by the pic this bird is much to small for foreplay let alone intercourse. Reaching back into my Tennessee Hillbilly ways I would opt for the much larger Albatross:

Now that looks more my size! BTW wishIhadAcat there is always:

As your name implies. Either way I would run it across the Mrs.. and make sure you look into your state laws to make sure you are not doing nothing criminal. Regardless animal rights groups everywhere will be in an uproar, but hey you'll still have us as a support group. JUST KEEP OFF OUR WOMEN!

wishihadacat · « **Reply #32 on:** January 23, 2007, 08:43:30 am »

Now that's what I call a real nice piece of tail. Is she over 18?

skeebo1969 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 23, 2007, 08:50:19 am »

Ahhh... so you like the bush hairy huh? JUST STAY AWAY FROM MY.....oooops OUR WOMEN...lol.

poet · « **Reply #34 on:** January 24, 2007, 06:48:13 am »

I skipped over this thread until now. What I would encourage, for the sake of the forums, is that we all continue to be direct since that's how we stay honest, but try to keep away from the 'you,' trying to keep it to 'if I were you,' or 'in my case,....' We know ourselves to some degree. We have to live with ourselves, with our choices, with our needs. And this is great to share, what we did, what we wish that we hadn't done and why. That way we are more likely to enable someone to experience, without living through it, what we have done and why so he or she can think about whether he or she would, in fact, want to have been us.

Given some recent tension on the gay/straight front, your subject is proof that we are all, men, women, gay, straight, other, dealing with the same issues and that we all can find answers or at least options here. I am grateful for the absolute honesty shown. Win

wishihadacat · « **Reply #35 on:** January 24, 2007, 07:18:05 am »

Thank you so much, Win. With loss there is often gain, and in a way, having hiv has almost been a blessing; over the years I have made wonderful friends in the gay community whom I would never overwise have known, and I like to think that it has made me a wiser, more loving and more conscious individual. I often think about the men who supported me twenty years ago, without whose wit, wisdom and encouragement I would never have survived this long.

We are all in this together. - David

HIV: a virus that causes otherwise rational human beings to read obscure reviews of early Charles Busch plays.

poet · « **Reply #36 on:** January 24, 2007, 11:54:56 am »

Welcome, David. Now that's Busch not Bush as in George, the father or son.

Best, Win

wishihadacat · « **Reply #37 on:** January 24, 2007, 12:17:52 pm »

You're right, I misspelled it. Ah well, what can you expect from an old straight guy?

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Author Topic: I'm poz, she's not (Read 8648 times)