POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: coldcatcher on May 23, 2010, 12:14:09 pm
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I would really like your assessment on my risk. I got a negative result in April and was
happy being negative since the encounter I was worried about was more than 3 months back. I had some other encounters I at that time considered lower risk. But given that I have suffered all kinds of illness I'm now worried they could be a risk after all. I hope you have the patience to look at this timelien and give your honest assessment:
Timeline
Dec 26 2009: Unprotected, receptive oral sex without ejaculation, but definitely with precum. Partner claims to be negatively but intuitively I would believe this person be a 'high risk' person since he has many sex profiles on the net, says he loves cum and he also grossly lied about some things related to his occupation and given an implausible story on his HIV testing (claiming he's tested every month due to the work he does).
Jan 20 2010: Unprotected insertive oral sex with another partner.
Jan 25 2010: Sore throat, fever (100.4F), impetigo in corner of mouth spreading to chin. Resolved after 3 days.
March 10 2010: Unprotected receptive oral sex without ejaculation, maybe with precum. With yet another partner - call him X.
March 23 2010: Bad flu - fever (103.8 ) C, sore throat, bad cough lasting 1-2 wks after other symptoms. Back to work March 29. Cough started some days prior.
This is when I start to get really scared of HIV :(
And then the story (testing wise) gets complicated.
April 12 2010:
* In the morning I had an Abbott Architect Ab/Ag blood test taken.
* Later same day person X (from March 10 encounter) has an instant HIV test taken (Abbott Determine HIV test). Result is negative. I was there when he got the test and went into get the result. I'm quite sure heis telling the truth and that he really got a neg. result.
April 13 2010: Cold starts. Sore throat runny nose. Lasts 1 wk.
April 15 2010: I get the result of my HIV-test taken April 12: Negative! :-)
May 20 2010: I get another cold coming up - maybe a kind of throat infection. :(
I did not have any other sex (including protected anal sex) during the whole period.
Now I'm not sure what to make of all this. I was so happy about the negative result and so sure I was ok but now I'm having second thoughts :( This is 3 colds and one flu since January which is very unusal for me. I usually get one cold in January and then a flu every 3-4 year. I also never had the impetigo (Jan 25) before. I have had a lot of
work related stress over the entire period and slept poorly quite a few days, but can it
really cause all this disease :( I'm in my late 20s. So now I'm starting to consider the other encounters as mentioned above.
My own analysis
Since my first symptoms (cold+impetigo) started on January 25, if it were to be caused by HIV the infection would have to be in December '09 meaning that more than 3 months elapsed until I took the test in April. Since that was negative I should be able to rule out HIV from that. The Jan 20 2010 encounter though was not fully covered by the window period, but it was close - and it seems extremely low risk.
So it seems I should reasonable be able to say that the impetigo and cold in January
was unrelated to HIV.
So that leaves the March 10 encounter which was only 33 days prior to the HIV test and was 2 wks before the bad flu. On the other hand, the person I was with tested negative on an instant test on April 12. So for there to be a HIV risk he would have had to be
in the window period (which I believe is longer for instant tests) - this would probably
imply he would be more infectious as well :( Still from what I read my own test on April 12 should have had some ability pick up the infection after 33 days but I know it is
not conclusive.
So what do you think? Do you think I'm worrying needlessly about this? Should I test again and when? I'm very scared about testing. I know a lot of people here say that oral sex is no risk, but I'm not so sure myself. So maybe you could also consider it under the assumption there's some risk with oral sex. I'm also concerned if my test could have been in error or that I could be a slower seroconverter - then all bets would be off. Would really like an objective opinion about this since I have thought too much about it all myself.
Do you know if frequent colds are a common symptom of HIV / early AIDS. I've found conflicting info on the net. However, I think I saw somewhere (can't find) that Andy frmo here had that.
Thanks in advance!
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Giving oral is only theoretically a risk. Your symptoms are in no way HIV specific. Your saliva contains over a dozen elements and proteins which very effectively prevent the transmission of viable HIV IF it is present.
Since you seem very concerned about this issue, do yourself a favor and get tested. You're at about 13 weeks now so your result will be conclusive. I suggest this not because I think you really had a risk, but rather just to put your mind at ease about the issue. If your symptoms persist you should discuss them with your doctor.
The only confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. Everything else is theoretical, but in the real world of HIV it's about unprotected intercourse.
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Hi Andy thanks for your reply. I'm wondering do you think I should test for the sake of the March 10 encounter (that will be 11 wks on Wednesday) or because of one of the other encounters (i.e. risk of prolonged seroconversion)?
I'm just so concerned - I felt like I could put this behind me but then I got this last cold :S I didn't worry about the encounter in March since that guy also had an instant negative HIV test the same day I was tested. While he could have been in the window period too (it was 33 days since we were together) he would have had to be infected very close to when we were together - but of course you never know :( Though my own test at 33 days would also have had a chance to pick it up. I just don't know what to think :(
Is it true you experienced frequent colds etc. if you don't mind me asking?
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Listen, no matter what else you throw into the mix about coldss and whatever, I don't see you as having had a risk. And I am not interested in someone else's test result.
When you are worried it's only your own negative test result that matters. You're obviously worried even though I don't see you as having been at risk. But I don't live in your shoes, so get yourself tested at 13 weeks. That way when you get the negative result that I expect, you won't find yourself second guessing about whether you did the test too early.
Ultimately I expect a happy ending for you about this concern.
Now get busy with other things in your life while you wait to test. Don't bother saying you're too worried to do that because I can tell you that response won't fly here. Just do it.
Cheers.
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Thanks - I think I will manage waiting to the 13wk mark but it would be nice to get some reassurance now. I was a bit freaked out on the last test and thought I was in the clear - but there was this nagging doubt about the March 10 encounter :S I will do the test at 13 wks.
Have a good Sunday all :)
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I expect you will come back with a happy result at 13 weeks.
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Thanks Andy. I wanted to write I would promise to come back with the result but I don't want to take anything for granted/given :S Sometimes I'm optimistic and think of the things that count in my favor: Low risk to begin with, I tested neg 33 days after, he tested neg at the same time. But then there's this could thing I don't know what to make of and the high fever from flu (though the cough suggests - I would think - it was indeed a flu. It certainly felt like a respiratory illness at the time. But it was 2 wks after encounter).
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Whatever the timing, neither the presence nor the absence of symptoms is ever a reliable way to know about HIV status. Only an HIV test taken at the proper time can give you that answer. Everything else is guesswork. Period.
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Andy, once again thanks for your responses. Do you think that taking 400mg ibuprofen twice a day for a week in January could have inhibited antibody formation so that my test result from April is not valid with respect to the December encounter? After all, ibuprofen is an anti-inflammatory cf. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19345936. Or would the antibody production rev up again after stopping ibuprofen?
Or do you think I can definitely rule out thinking about the December encounter so it is really only the March encounter that could be a conern? Knowing the answer to this would give me peace of mind in waiting for the 13 wks to run out.
By the way the test I took was a duo test. The official guideline here says it should be valid after 1 month (which means all encounters were in the scope of the April test) but I know the CDC doesn't say the same.
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Ibuprofen?
Won't have an effect on antibody production. You never had a risk of contracting HIV to begin with.
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Thanks for your response! I think I would say the same to anyone with this. But is this strange symptom constellation that is worrying me. And also reading on this forum to be frank. Reading on "Just tested poz" it seems there's something strange going on in many cases - either long window periods, or strange means of transmission :S And then also that guy in December who was so dishonest about everything - claiming that his workplace (Military) tested him every month for HIV+ because he had told the doc there he was gay. Implausible in itself but then I found out he now only has a clerical job there making it even more implausible :S
But it is really true I only had unprotected oral sex - but there definitely was precum in the Decemer encounter (I noticed when I "started").
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Your symptoms are something to be discussing with your doctor. There is no evidence from what you are reporting to suggest they have anything to do with HIV since we have already told you that you didn't do anything risky.
You need to know you can't continue to come back here repeatedly about a no risk situation without risking getting a 28 day Time Out from the site.
As far as I am concerned your getting tested is strictly for your peace of mind and not because there was a genuine risk.
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So I went to my doctor and told the full story. He didn't want to do an HIV test due to the April test. The guideline here is 1 month post exposure. I didn't insist because it wasn't fully 3 months yet. But he did run a full blood count due to the history of illness. I got the results on the phone today. There were two values outside the reference range. One was vitamin D which was slightly lower. The second was the neutrophil count which was 1.6 per 10^-9 L (i.e. 1600 per microliter). The reference range was something like from 1800 to some very high number (maybe 8000). He said to follow up with a new blood count in 2 weeks. This made me really scared. I googled and found a condition, neutropenia, which is low neutrophils and is apparently very common in HIV. I should note that I was still having cold symptoms at the time but I don't know if they could make my neutrophils go that low. Now I'm very scared to take an HIV test (it's 3 months in two days) :( What do you think?
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You never had a risk of contracting HIV so whatever was found in your CBC has nothing to do with HIV.
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I'm so glad you are saying that but I just worry if that is really the case. I sometimes can taste blood after brushing. What if I had had a sore when I went down on that guy (or one of them)?
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Cold,
The testing window for hiv in the UK is twelve weeks - when there has been a risk. You didn't have a risk as we've repeatedly told you.
Having a sore throat does not change the fact that saliva has over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. For there to be even the slightest risk associated with a sore throat, believe me, it would have to be such a severe sore throat that the last thing you'd be doing is sucking a cock.
Keep working with your doctor to find out what, if anything, is wrong with you. Whatever is going on has nothing to do with hiv. You don't have hiv.
Keep posting about this and you'll be given that time out you've been warned about.
Ann
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Hi Ann maybe you did not read everything in this admittedly long thread, but I didn't take
a test at 12 wks. I took one that 5 wks past the last encounter. But it was a DUO test and
it was rated for 1 month here but I'm unfortunately skeptic about this since everyone on here
says it is really 3 months even for that test. Though of course it is a good sign - but unfortunately
the symptoms persisted. :/
By the way I didn't write 'sore throat' I wrote if I had a 'sore' like from brushing or biting
me cheek.
Can I write about the test result when I eventually take that test?
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Hi Ann maybe you did not read everything in this admittedly long thread, but I didn't take
a test at 12 wks. I took one that 5 wks past the last encounter. But it was a DUO test and
it was rated for 1 month here but I'm unfortunately skeptic about this since everyone on here
says it is really 3 months even for that test. Though of course it is a good sign - but unfortunately
the symptoms persisted. :/
By the way I didn't write 'sore throat' I wrote if I had a 'sore' like from brushing or biting
me cheek.
Can I write about the test result when I eventually take that test?
1 month, 5 weeks, 12 weeks. Makes no difference in your case.
You didn't have a risk to begin with, you do not have HIV.
MtD
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What part of you didn't have a risk is it you don't understand?
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In your case getting tested is strictly for your peace of mind. If you want to report your results, sure go ahead. A negative is a slam dunk.
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Cold,
I mentioned the 12 week testing window in the UK because you said your doctor told you the window was four weeks. He's wrong. It's twelve. And yes, I know you're somewhere in the UK. I am too.
You didn't have a risk. As I said yesterday, keep posting about this and you'll be given a time out.
Ann
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Hi I just got back my HIV test results (Ab/Ag combo): Negative. The blood was drawn Sunday making it 3 months and 3 days since the last encounter. So this should really be conclusive right? :)
Especially combined with the negative test in April (which was already >3 months away from the December encounter and 5 wks after the April encounter) and the low risk - I'm now totally assured the result is accurate and there hasn't been a clerical error etc. I'm so glad my prayers to God were heard. I was losing my mind over all these symptoms. Not really at first, but it started adding up. Especially the low neutrophils were a downer but my doc is following up on that one (and the other symptoms) - now I know what it isn't and hopefully it isn't anything.
Thanks to everyone who responded and for staying more clearheaded than I did. You really calmed my nerves as much as was possible in that situation. I wish you all the best of luck and good health :)
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Cold,
Yes, you are conclusively hiv negative, which is no big surprise as you did NOT have a risk in the first place.
Ann
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Hi Ann
And thank you very much for your replies.
To tell you the truth I'm undecided on the risk of oral sex. Clearly it most be low risk when you think of the sero-discordant studies. However, it probably does happen sometimes - I think even the Aidsmeds transmission lessons say that:
There have been three case reports and a few studies suggesting that some people have been infected with HIV as a result of unprotected oral sex. However, these case reports and studies all involved MSM—men who were the receptive partners (the person doing the "sucking") during unprotected oral sex with another HIV-positive man. There haven't been any case reports or studies documenting HIV infection among female receptive partners during unprotected oral sex. Even more importantly, there hasn't been a single documented case of HIV transmission to an insertive partner (the person being "sucked") during unprotected oral sex, either among MSM or heterosexuals.
I've always wondered a bit about the wording of this: "However, these case reports and studies all involved MSM". That isn't much comfort if you happen to be MSM! Also I'm wondering about what the "however" refers to - that it doesn't matter as much when it is "just" in MSM's? Or that they are less trustworthy?
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Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
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We've given our evaluation of your situation and told you there wasn't a risk. Doubts and fears aren't facts. A test result is a fact and you have tested negative.
I can tell you that we aren't going to get into a back and forth about the minutae of the issue. You need to let go of this issue and get on with your life.
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Hi Andy
Thank you very much for your help on this. As you see I followed your good advice and waited out to the 3 months so I wouldn't have a nagging doubt afterwards. I think this will help putting this behind me.
I definitely feel over it (well, a night's sleep probably won't hurt), I was just trying to explain why I was fearing something in the first place.
The important thing for me was to say Thanks and to let you know the result (as I had been permitted to) and so that this thread might be found by people with the same symptoms/circumstances in the future.
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You're welcome. Good luck and get on with your life. Protect that happy negative status by always without exception using condoms for vaginal and anal intercourse.
Cheers.
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Here we go again...
So Saturday I met this 20 yo guy I made out with and we gave each other hand jobs. We deep kissed for 20 minutes og mutually masturbated for 20 minutes. He leaked more precum than any guy I have met before - after 5 minutes my hand was totally soaked in his precum and his penis was sliding through it like if it was a vagina. As far as I could tell I had no cuts on my hands. I changed hands once and I later used the hand I had previously masturbated him with to masturbate myself, but I had not used that hand on him for long and it was dry when I used it on myself.
So I basically thought all that was totally safe.
Then Monday I developed sore throat, fever (didn't measure - but definitely fever) which became worse during Tuesday. The night to Wednesday I sweat all night and couldn't sleep. I took an aspirin and started feeling really hot, probably from the temp. coming down. I have swollen nodes on the neck. That's when I started getting nervous if it was ARS. Started googling - apparently there is one reported case of infection from deep kissing. They had bad gums. I have bad gums. There were also a case of a guy becoming infected from mutual masturbating because he used the other guys (pre?)cum as lube. I also found a study showing high viral load in saliva - 500,000 copies/mL - during acute infection (http://www.aidsmap.com/cms1323976.aspx) :S That sounds like a lot. I tried to take comfort in the fact that ARS wouldn't usually show up that fast - I think?
Went to the doc this morning. He did a strep test (don't know the method and its reliability but it was using a test strip and some reagents) that came back positive and he prescribed penicillin. That was a relief since then it could explain the symptoms.
But there's still this nagging doubt. I probably got the strep infection from him since I didn't have close contact with anyone else. He didn't seem sick though. But what if he had a strep throat and HIV? Perhaps that would imply a higher viral load in his saliva (more immune action in his tonsils or whatever) PLUS me being more susceptible due to acquiring the strep throat. Do you think I should test for HIV again and at what timing? Thanks!
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HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions, therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.
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Thanks. Could a person with acute HIV turn false positive on a rapid strep test? I read it tests for an antigen like certain HIV tests :S
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Thanks. Could a person with acute HIV turn false positive on a rapid strep test? I read it tests for an antigen like certain HIV tests :S
You were not at risk of HIV infection for the reasons Rod has outlined in his post above. Kissing of any sort is not a risk, nor is masturbating another person no matter how much precum he might produce.
As we have explained to you on previous occasions symptoms are meaningless when it comes to assesing HIV status, only risk behaviours are relevant. Since you were not at risk it follows that your symptoms are not the product of the acute phase of HIV infection.
You have been here long enough to know that the posting guidelines prohibit posting excessively about non risk situations. You are in real danger of being handed a 28 day time out.
Consider yourself warned.
MtD
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Matty thanks, but one can't be sure it is no risk before asking, no? I intuitively thougth it was no risk - but on the other hand in this case I was concerned if it was still safe given the quantity of precum. I mean, if your hand is soaked then you might get fluids down the sides of the nails or into microscopic holes in the skin? I would imagine this can only happen if there's lots of precum since otherwise it will dry out and not be able to "surround" your fingers etc.
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Yes, you can be sure about non-risk by simply evaluating each new sexual experience and using the information that has been given to you previously. As long as you haven't had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse then it is safe to assume you haven't had a risk because everything else sexual is only theoretically a risk.
We're not here to hold your hand everytime you have a sexual experience. If you're old enough to be having sex then you're old enough to be make responsible decisions about what you do.
Other STDs are much easier to acquire so we do suggest that anyone who's sexually active ought to regularly have a full STD panel done at least once a year. Sexually as long as you consistently use condoms for intercourse you will be well protected against HIV. It really is just that simple.
If you are going into a state everytime you have sex of any sort then I suggest you see a counselor or other professional to discuss your fears. We can't help you with that in this setting.
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cold,
Microscopic holes in your skin? Get a grip.
No where in that study you brought to us is the number 500,000 mentioned. Where it does discuss high viral loads - with no numbers mentioned - it also says:
"These findings should be treated with caution because the study was conducted in 1994, when PCR viral load testing was still at an experimental stage, and large differences in viral load were found between samples from the same patients."
In other words, the study has been discredited. So again, get a grip.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!!!
Ann
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cold,
Microscopic holes in your skin? Get a grip.
No where in that study you brought to us is the number 500,000 mentioned. Where it does discuss high viral loads - with no numbers mentioned - it also says:
"These findings should be treated with caution because the study was conducted in 1994, when PCR viral load testing was still at an experimental stage, and large differences in viral load were found between samples from the same patients."
In other words, the study has been discredited. So again, get a grip.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!!!
Ann
Hi Ann,
sorry but I had been looking at several articles on Saliva on Aidsmap and the one I linked to didn't contain that particular number. Here's the one with the 500,000 / mL. Sorry for the confusion:
http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/8A8C949A-D752-4A10-A089-A48449259264.asp
However, some individuals in this study had virus levels as high as 500,000 copies in saliva, suggesting that during the early weeks of infection some individuals may be ‘super-excretors’ of HIV, and may play a significant role in the ongoing amplification of the HIV epidemic.
(Actually this is one of the articles the other article refers to - but it is not the discredited one from 1994, it is from 2001). I was really surprised to see this high number, I wonder if it is a typo and they meant to say 'semen'.
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Cold,
Regardless, you're forgetting that YOUR saliva also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. His does as well. You are not going to become infected through kissing.
You can search the internet for things to back up just about anything you want to - but that doesn't mean it applies to the real world. In the real world, people do not become infected with hiv through kissing.
I'm giving you that long over-due time out you've been warned about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.
Ann