Are the Moderators Sleeping?

[sdguyloveslife]

OK, I’ve had it and need to vent!  I tried to just ignore it, and I thought I was going to be able to, but this whole Etay1207 debacle has my blood boiling today!  Sorry, but I cannot sit on the sidelines and "look the other way" any longer. 

Etay has posted just a few messages and look at the overwhelming response!  As of today, his threads have been viewed well over 5,000 times!!  We all sit around and bicker about his posts, while he sits behind his computer screen laughing his ass off at our expense!  Like it or not, Etay IS A DENIALIST! Numerous members have found evidence of this fact is all over the internet.  (If Christine Maggiore had posted on this site, she would have been banned immediately, no matter what her post said!) 

This is how the denialists recruit members!  They pluck one or two of us off at a time from the legitimate sites and places.  They get us thinking, questioning ourselves and our better judgment…gee, maybe the docs are not right??  If it works for him, why couldn't it work for me?? Then they direct us to denialist information on other sites – is it because they’re not plastered directly onto this site, somehow the mods feel that’s ok?? 

Our example right in front of us is Etay who directs us to his denialist youtube video of the “face of AIDS” as a picture of health.  Wake up!  That video is NOT the “face of AIDS” – that is pure denialist bullsh*t!  Etay, a rather attractive, gentle-mannered guy posts his “seemingly benign” message on our site, but directs our members to visit his own homemade denialist propaganda.  Not to mention, who knows how many PM conversations he has going preaching his nonsense?  These forums are NOT free speech – it clearly states in the ground rules that denialists will not be tolerated.  Why not enforce your own rule?   

While I can see the “argument” that MtD puts forth that Etay’s demise should be instructive to us all, it doesn’t wash!  Because it only takes ONE person to get confused and start going down that road of irrational thought.  Look at the case with our own aferstilo, who admits confusion over this and came and told us – how will we ever know the “one who got away,” that was too confused to admit it or tell us? 

At the end of the day, this is a support group.  People come here because they want change, they want to learn a new way of living.  Look for a moment at perhaps the most famous support group, Alcoholics Anonymous, where the ONLY requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.  You can even go to an AA meeting drunk!  But, if you have the desire, you are welcome.  Etay has made it abundantly clear that he has NO desire for a different viewpoint nor a different life.  It’s a foregone conclusion that nobody on this site is going to “save” Etay from himself, so let him go!  Revoke his membership!  Get rid of him!  He’s already in the express lane to the grave – that’s like trying to stop an Olympic bobsled by dragging your feet below it…it’s just not gonna happen!  Let him go and preach his denialist propaganda elsewhere. 

There’s a lot of us here who know better, but many that don’t.  In fact, we look at our own Am I Infected? forum and laugh or snicker at what might appear to us as “ridiculous” questions – but many are, in fact, real.  So, we have a “protection” built in place that only allows “authorized” responders to write in that forum.  It’s a fact that those AII posters occasionally “convert” and land in I Just Tested Poz – so, why would their next question be any less “silly” to some of us??  (That’s what the denialists call low hanging fruit!)  The way I see it, you’ve gone to great lengths to protect the “uninfected” but by allowing the denialists like Etay in, you fail miserably in helping the “already infected.” 

Etay is going to die – by my best guess, fairly soon!  C'mon moderators!  Wake up!  You can either continue to sit on your hands and wait for the virus to do it, or you can revisit the mission of of this board, then get up off your chair and take a stand against AIDS denialism and get rid of him today.  From my own personal experience in deciding whether or not to post this message, I know that conquering your own complacency is hard and my post might change nothing, but I needed to try.  Many thanks for reading! 

[Matty the Damned]

So where, specifically, has Etay posted pro-denialist views in this forum? Linkage?

MtD

[WillyWump]

That's just it he hasn't, here.

However if you click on his Youtube link in his signature it directs you to his "living With Aids" segment. Nothing in there really directly espouses denialsm either except maybe a "numbers are not a big deal" quote....but this, to me, is a grey area. BUT if you look directly to the right to his Youtube favorites, he has saved a segment from a "Rethinking AIDS" Conference.  We all know what the "Rethinking AIDS group is.

So....The Forum rules say this about members posting denialist propoganda...
"Any member who posts denialists propaganda – including direct links to information produced by denialist entities or language encouraging members to research denialism -- will be banned immediately. More benign questions or comments about denialism, especially when raised by a long-term member of the Forums, will be handled on a case-by-case basis."

The "Rethinking AIDS" Conference segment is technically not a direct link from his post. But what worries me is that some of the newbies might watch his youtube segment and then go over and click on the "Rethinking AIDS" segment and decide that they do not need meds, etc...

I think we are in a big grey area here in regards to Etay and "denialism", and it's something the Mods will have to decide.

I see both sides here, but it really worries me that a newbie might get caught up in some fo the Denilists mantra by following Etays links, and it would be sad if it occured because of these Forums.

-Will

[bocker3]

I'm not sure if he's a denialist or not -- there is some evidence, but......

What I do think we all need to do is STOP giving him a platform.  He comes in, starts a thread and then gets scores of folks responding, and arguing with each other.  He pops in, now and then, to stir it up some more.  

Again -- I don't know if he's a denialist or a delusionist....  but I suspect even more that he's someone in need of attention.  Let's stop feeding that need.  Many have tried to open his eyes and he, seemingly, has no desire to have those eyes opened.  That's sad -- and I feel bad for what will likely be an agonizing end for him -- but we can't do anything more.  So, let's stop feeding him the attention he craves.

As for all the hand wringing about what the newbies and worried well might read -- well, letting his posts slip down the page by not taking his bait, will help there.

My 2 cents, anyway..............

Mike

edited to add:  I see that the wise one from NZ (anniebc, aka, Jan) has said something similar in his own thread.  Folks may not want to heed my words, but Jan is much wiser than I...............   Listen to her.

[skeebo1969]

   Rolaids and TUMS are the new antivirals!

[mpositive]

Ya know, normally, I would say let folks have the freedom to speak their mind.  But this really is a different story.  In fact, I think that the actions of denialists, however masked at times, are extremely dangerous and there should not be any tolerance at all.  This is of course only my opinion, but I certainly would like to see this misguided individual banned.  I would hate to think that someone that may be going thru a tough time and is vulnerable to this, would end up getting hurt.
That being said........Chocolate Chip cookies dipped in Green Tea and chewed 16 times before swallowing cures HIV.      18 times for AIDS. 

[Dennis]

...That being said........Chocolate Chip cookies dipped in Green Tea and chewed 16 times before swallowing cures HIV.      18 times for AIDS.  

I hope someone going through a tough time and is vulnerable doesn't take this seriously and decide to forgo meds.  

[David_CA]

I've never even heard of this member, but I did just read some of his posts.  It reminds me of a few of the things I've read on that bugshare.net (or whatever) site.  Some of those posts are so out there that it's hard to believe that whoever posted them is serious or not just high as hell or something.
 

Lou: You've had a 200 t-cell drop over the past two years? I've had a 200 t-cell drop in a matter of 5 months! I wouldn't worry much about it.  Nobody else on this forum seems to be worried and some of them have been living with HIV for many, many years.  My ex and I went on a caribbean cruise this past Oct. When we got back to NYC he caught a horrible flu.  He's been on meds over 10 years now and his t-cells are over 700 with an ud vl.  We had a good laugh as I took care of him that week with my horrible numbers. He's about your age by the way.  You're on meds and they seem to be pretty good at stabilizing t-cells counts.  I know my t-cell numbers are pretty in the toilet until I start meds.  My doc prescribed me Atripla (I have yet to fill the perscription). My best friend just started Atripla and he LOVES it!

It's hard for me to take somebody seriously when they're not concerned over having a CD4 of 52 at 5.8%.  Most likely there's a lot he's not telling us, he's screwing with people here, or he's just THAT... unusual.

[Hellraiser]

He's attempting to subversively advance a denialist agenda.  You can read his intent from the way he's interacting with the community of our forums.  He's not participating in our discussions, he's not making friends, he's just going forward with his agenda which is to tell people that (in his mind) HIV medcine is not required to live a healthy lifestyle once you are HIV positive.  The fact that he's wrong and that his agenda is completely against the spirit of these forums is why he comes here.  I completely agree with the OP I just don't care enough about this guy to get my panties in a wad over him.  I do find the attention he's being given to be a bit odd though.  We all know what he's up to, don't feed the troll.

[WillyWump]

I hope someone going through a tough time and is vulnerable doesn't take this seriously and decide to forgo meds.  

Headed to the store for Choc Chip cookies and Green Tea!!

-Vulnerable Will

[Dennis]

Headed to the store for Choc Chip cookies and Green Tea!!

-Vulnerable Will

Personally, I would go for the double chocolate chunk cookies. It's a once a day regimine. If you take regular chocolate chip cookies you'll need a hot fudge booster which wreaks havoc on your complexion.

[Hellraiser]

Personally, I would go for the double chocolate chunk cookies. It's a once a day regimine. If you take regular chocolate chip cookies you'll need a hot fudge booster which wreaks havoc on your complexion.

Dennis, can I hire you as my new ID?

[Joe K]

When will you folks stop feeding the trolls?  I've read his posts and they are nothing. He babbles a little and that is it. The numbers he posts are meaningless, because I doubt someone who claims to feel great, while dead on paper, hardly goes to any doctors. He's trolling, plain and simple. You don't see him reply in his threads, so stop the worry and let him die in peace and silence!

[tommy246]

I think hes making it all up for attention and its working

[aferstilo]

i can actually say that before having him post on forums i had no idea there was such thing as the other side of HIV/AIDS and it had me go and read and read and read and their shit sounded really convincing altho i didnt fall for it WOULD not and WILL NOT stop taking my atripla everyday. because i know i feel much better now that im on meds than when i wasnt. but anyone who's gullable enough will completly fall through with it and could end up really hurt.. now a days it only takes a few words to have you Googling the shit outta something lets not forget that he doesnt need to post links or websites all he needs to do is let us know there is another side to hiv and have people loose their mind.

PS: i just bought my double chocolate chunck cookies and some green tea wish me luck lol~!

[skeebo1969]

   Just got my lab results today.  Even though the blood draw was two weeks ago somehow I think the regular chocolate chip cookie and plain sweet tea I consumed yesterday had something to do with my results.

   Cd4 1123    Vl undetectable

   Thinking about crumbling up the cookies and smoking them... if you guys don't see me around you'll know the proper way is to ingest and not inhale.

   

[Ravhyn]

Lucky for me I have some chocolate chip cookies and green tea in the cabinet.  Something inside of me says this may lead more to a tummy ache then anything LOL.

[AlanBama]

I agree with Joe.    Don't feed the trolls.

 

[mecch]

I've come around. Etay's last response in the other thread shows there's scant hope for a discussion with him. Etay seems quite content in his choices and merry denial.  However, stopping to engage with him is a better idea than banishing because he hasn't broken rules in this forum, has he? 

P.S. It seems worthwhile to shine the light a little bit on vitriolic reactions, here, to fools deluded about HIV.  That was one of the values of these threads anyway, no?

[Boo Radley]

I have far too many more important tasks to accomplish than engaging a denialist in discourse.   There must be at least 4 pencils badly in need of sharpening, not to mention the sheets of bubble wrap to be popped.