POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: billy on April 16, 2008, 11:23:34 am
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Hi guys,
actually I want to hug everyone around me :P
Today I got my new results... and I was VERY surprised. My CD4 count is 1.356!
I was hoping to have 800+ but this exceeds my expectations by far.
So what was your highest CD4 count... so that I can have a target for my next test after summer.
Hugs & Kisses
Billy
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That's awesome so keep up the good work. My highest was 419 (18%) Now it's 341 (21%) but understand I came from a low point of 42 (7%)
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764 for me my lowest was 330 at seroconversion
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Mine once had an upward "blip" of 1,425 but 3 months later were back down to ~1,000 which is more where they've been since I went on fuzeon and prezista 1.5 years ago.
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this poll is kind of a bummer for those of us who haven't broken 500.
but congratulations, billy!
my highest is just recently...489, i think. currently 457. lowest was 89, i believe.
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this poll is kind of a bummer for those of us who haven't broken 500.
but congratulations, billy!
my highest is just recently...489, i think. currently 457. lowest was 89, i believe.
SORRY thunter34... didn't mean to exclude you & others... so I set the starting point at 400.
(maybe it's still to much... but as the subject says... "skyrockets")
So go on and vote thunter34 :-*
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ok. i voted. :-*
oh....and it actually was kind of a skyrocket. had been down below 300 for ages.
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Congrats! You sure set the bar high. Gives me something to aim for.. ;D
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Congrats Billy,
Keep up the good work!
My highest CD4 count was last June: 954 (28.8%)
Daniel
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Congrats Billy!...my lowest was at seroconversion 270...last labs over 1300....
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Congrats! Nice rebound! :) :) :)
my highest CD4 count was 979 (40%), and lowest was 152 (23%) when first diagnosed with teh AIDS ~ 21 months ago
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Thats quite amazing that the CD4 count can get so high.
I have another 1000 to go to reach your record.
Well done and we allhope to will catch up.
Do you add anything special to your diet, or perhaps bay at the full moon or something.
(joke- but seriously)
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Well my highest was my last one 539, but I have only been on meds for a year and I started from 126, always increasing, so I am very pleased with my numbers so far! ;D
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Do you add anything special to your diet, or perhaps bay at the full moon or something.
(joke- but seriously)
special diet? maybe yes... NO supplements at all... that means i get my needed vitamins only natural...
every day 1x Actimel (concentrated Lactose drink) by Danone and 1x Vie by Knorr (concentrated natural fruit drink)
and i took for 20 days gelle royal honey (600mg) besides "normal" food, fruits & salad.
as you see only natural supplements... no vitamin-pills, because every pill goes through the liver... and I don't want to keep my liver busy with those kind of supplements ;D
If this is a secret combination... i dont know... try it out and tell me
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Those are some good numbers! I'm pretty new to all this, but mine are listed below in my sig. line.
David
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mine is 340, but up from 40 three months ago , congrats!
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Wonderful News! I just got mine back today as well and it is 807! I am so happy for this. It went down in Feb. from an all time high of 1025 to 602. I was worried about it but it looks like I am doing something right! So are you! Again... I know how you feel Wonderful!!!!!
TravelTramp
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Lowest ever : 7
Highest ever : 950
Currently at 650.
woow Bill. Great for you.
Hermie :)
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Highest ever = 420 @24%
Lowest ever = 42 @ 3%
Currently = 345 @ 18% (although the recent drop is most likely due to chemo)
Congrats, Billy! Soooooo Jealous!!!! ;)
Vince
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I'm hoping to see mine skyrocket over 200 at my next test. ;D
I see that you started meds early. How did you come to that decision?
Maybe Nlewlad has the right idea after all. . . .
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Mine was 394. Maybe it was much higher when I wasn't poz? Or maybe I was born with a low CD4 count. :(
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Congratulations Billy, great numbers!
My lowest CD4's were pre-protease days (I had between 1-10 for 1992 to 1996), highest somewhere in the 500's. Currently in lower 400's.
I remember starting Saquinivir in '96 - my doctor called me at home personally to tell me my t-cells had gone up to 78! He was laughing like a schoolboy. We really had no idea how things were going to turn out back then.
We are all very fortunate to have the drugs we have today (even though we all complain about them, me included).
hugs, Alan
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About 800, but I'm still on the downward slide until meds.
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I'm waiting to reach the 200 mark. Hopefully this next set of labs in June.
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I wish I could put some away in a CD4 savings account for when I needed them. The interest could slowly accrue and I could retire in peace.
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that's a high bar for me. I started at 10 and am hoping to break 200 with my next test. I'm feeling fine though so I don't give it much thought.
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started at 77 and more than 2 years later at my highest of 430.
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my highest was 1275, lowest 875. average count since testing began in early 90's about 1150.
poz since 1981. no meds, very blessed.
Paul
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My highest was 1051 (36%) and my lowest was 253 (19%). My last lab test had me at 929 (36%). Not too shabby for being poz for 16 years. ;D
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Hey Billy congratulations!!! those are superb results!
I started at 40, had a fluke high in the 700's a week after I broke my wrist (total T-cells were really high -- those little buggers were looking for an invader :) ) and seem to be in the 400's most of the time.
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Sad, you seemed to miss mine... where is the less than 200?
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Congrats - those are great numbers!
My highest is/was 279 lowest 6.
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Hey KellyK, me too lowest was 7, highest 240(something)
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Congrats Billy!
My highest was 513, and I just received a call from my Doctor and they are at 448, with my viral load undetectable, (which I think is most important) as it always was.
I started off at 130,so they are holding steady, responding very well to Atripla which I love only taking one pill a day, not a side effect I can complain about. I do love the vivid dreams!
And bsides that life is really good! I am still working, dating a great guy since August, no other worries, LIFE IS GOOD!
Live, Love Laugh!
Peter!
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Last labs as of 4-25-08, still U/d cd4 1,100....Not too shabby after having the flu and a cough that didnt go away for 3 weeks...
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Mine once had an upward "blip" of 1,425 but 3 months later were back down to ~1,000 which is more where they've been since I went on fuzeon and prezista 1.5 years ago.
wow, i thnk philly won!! wishful had some damn good numbers too.
hey, as long as i got numbers to report i'm happy : )
hopefully ill be getting lab work done this week.
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Another great day for me today... my CD4 are continuously rising and I am happy and have a big smile on my face :D 1.465 my latest lab results on CD4
hugs & kisses and wish all of you that your results will be as good as mine!
PS: Philly I got ya 8)
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congrats on the new number! i'm currently at 521 up from my low of 30 at diagnosis in June 2005.
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Went from 511/29% to 667/31.5% in 5 weeks after starting Atripla.
It seems that many of the people with high CD4 levels started treatment early or certainly before their levels were too low.
I was worried about starting too early at 511, but now I'm looking forward to really good future numbers. I see my doc next week. I hope to report even higher numbers.
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Congratulations!!!!!
My last labs I came in at 720 and was happy - but I have to admit I have CD4 envy!!! I guess we all wish our numbers could better even when they are in a good zone. I guess after so much bumping around when I was first diagnosed and went on meds, I won't complain!!!
Congrats again!!!!
Mike :)
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My CD4 was 610 back when I tested positive. For the next 14 years, I had a very long, very slow decline to to 225, when I decided to start meds. Since then my highest CD4 has been 622. The "expected" range is 540-1660 (according to my lab sheet). I wonder if, after a certain level, the number of t-cells is not so important as the responsiveness / effectiveness of those t-cells? I can certainly say that, after starting meds 4 years ago, the number of pesky sinus infectionsn / bronchitis / colds I have had really has plummeted to just about nil (and wasn't all that high to be begin with).
Cheers,
Henry
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what do I get if I win the contest?
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well today new numbers which are superb.
New CD4 count at 1.600!
I asked twice, cuz couldn't believe... but doc said... believe it that's what the blood results shows :-)
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well today new numbers which are superb.
New CD4 count at 1.600!
I asked twice, cuz couldn't believe... but doc said... believe it that's what the blood results shows :-)
I hate you, but am happy for your results.
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I dunno because presumably it was when I was a boy and long before I was HIV+. ;D
Wanna compare SAT scores instead? Just kidding
Congrats to you.
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Wanna compare SAT scores instead?
Dunno those numbers anymore ???
But I guess high... 8)
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It would be too cool if Atripla could triple the SAT scores in one dose only! Think of the black market cash we could make around High School parking lots.
I just mentioned it because I think 1600 was the perfect score! Kinda like cd4.
Now its 2400 since its three tests. Can you have 2400 CD4?? ::)
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My highest tcell count was 1,377. Those days are LONG GONE! I don't think I'll ever see numbers like that again unless I get on meds. Lowest was this past Feburary. Don't know where they are now. Buy I don't expect them to be higher than they were last labs.
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My highest was 1120, a year ago.
It dropped to 910 and then to 700.
My percentage CD4% has remained the same: 26%.
I was diagnosed 09/04/2008 (353 15%) and started taking Kaletra/Combivir 2 days later.
Now I'm Kaletra/Kivexa[Epzicom].
I need to see my I.D. doc for the newest results (after 5 months on Kaletra/Kivexa)
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Highest were 1,018 I think. You can check my signature line.
Lowest was 171
I have no idea, like most people, what they were prior to infection. I've always wondered how long labs keep blood. I'm sure they throw it out after doing whatever tests they are asked to do. It would be interesting if some blood of mine existed prior to HIV that was still viable to check for CD4. I believe the average for a neg person is 1,000. When I hear some HIV neg's normal number is 500, I often think that must be a minority of people.
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My highest tcell count was 1,377. Those days are LONG GONE! I don't think I'll ever see numbers like that again unless I get on meds. Lowest was this past Feburary. Don't know where they are now. Buy I don't expect them to be higher than they were last labs.
Duh...is the Pope Catholic ? ;D
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I was diagnosed 09/04/2008 (353 15%) and started taking Kaletra/Combivir 2 days later.
Now I'm Kaletra/Kivexa[Epzicom].
same here as you see from my signature. I am fine & satisfied with my combo - no complaints. so wish you good luck :-)
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Hi guys,
actually I want to hug everyone around me :P
Today I got my new results... and I was VERY surprised. My CD4 count is 1.356!
I was hoping to have 800+ but this exceeds my expectations by far.
So what was your highest CD4 count... so that I can have a target for my next test after summer.
Hugs & Kisses
Billy
OMG, You side 1356 ie a four digiit number. So, when are you going to stop the med? LOL.
I have my own in the month of July. I am now >450. I wish I could be geting in the 600 th.
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Highest was 825, (which puts me in your second-lowest category), lowest was 547, most recent was 687. In fact, my t-cells haven't budged from the 600s for fifteen months now. But who knows? In this brave new world where I have a VL of 799,000, no doubt all those viral particles are fast at work eating away at my t-cells. For all I know I'm already down to 200.
Anyway--congratulations on your great results! I've never even heard about anyone having 1600! For a while this thread had me really confused, because you were saying that you were hoping to have something above 800 and then got 1300, but when I looked at your numbers history you've been above 1000 steadily for two years now. Only after some confusion did I notice that the bulk of the thread was from two years ago when you got that first great number. Anyway, your t-cells are really fantastic! Keep up the good work!
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I don't think I'll ever see numbers like that again unless I get on meds.
after this long without meds and with reaching such a low point, no :(, you probably will never see numbers like that - even with meds. More than likely you'll be lucky just to get back over 200 after starting treatment. For many people, once their tcells are decimated (into the <100 range), there isn't much recovery (into the >400 ranges) ever again.
That's just another reason so many have constantly been encouraging you to start meds (and ragging on you for not ;) ). You have probably done irrepairable damage to your immune system (and are still doing it today!) and will have to deal with many years of your future with illnesses that you wouldn't have otherwise had if you had only started meds at the recommended time.
Sub-optimal CD4 Recovery (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/706308)
Older Age, Lower CD4 Nadir, NNRTI Use Predict Slow CD4 Recovery (http://www.natap.org/2010/CROI/croi_11.htm)
What Causes Poor CD4-Cell Recovery in the Setting of Suppressive Antiretroviral Therapy? (http://aids-clinical-care.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2010/426/1)
Poor CD4 Cell Recovery on Antiretroviral Therapy Is Linked to Late Treatment, Leads to Adverse Outcomes (http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2010_conference/croi/docs/0223_2010_c.html)
SUMMARY: People with HIV who do not experience significant CD4 cell recovery with antiretroviral therapy (ART) -- even though they achieve viral load suppression -- are at risk for a host of complications including cardiovascular disease and cancer, according to an analysis of the Dutch ATHENA cohort presentation at the 17th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections (CROI 2010) last week in San Francisco. In related news, researchers with the DART trial in Africa found that starting treatment late increased the likelihood of inadequate CD4 cell gains.
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Can anyone tell me how much is the CD count of any HIV (Negative) person? Please I need to know this.
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Can anyone tell me how much is the CD count of any HIV (Negative) person? Please I need to know this.
You mean the CD4 count of a person without HIV?
MtD
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Can anyone tell me how much is the CD count of any HIV (Negative) person? Please I need to know this.
500-1500 for adults, 800-2000 for children
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You mean the CD4 count of a person without HIV?
MtD
Yes
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Hi,
I am about to join the contest
08/09 : infected (age 47)
09/09 : sero conversion
04/10 : tested +
04/10 : CD4: 440 CD4%: 18 CD8%: 61 VL: 65k (4.82 log)
05/10 : CD4: 535 CD4%: 16 CD8%: 63 VL: 52k (4.71 log)
05/10 : CD4: 453 CD4%: 20 CD8%: 55 VL: 68k (4.84 log)
06/10 : Viramune (Nevirapine) + Kivexa (Epzicom)
07/10 : CD4: 650 CD4%: 29 CD8%: 49 VL: VL: 600 (2.7 log)
most importantly, I am interested in ways to help the immune system recovery.
At my age some dynamics start to slow down ... On the other hand I am getting more open to ways to help my body recover (even if the effect is only marginal to the meds)
By the way, Billy, you have posting such good results... What's your age ?
All suggestions welcome !
Eric
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highest 1500 (now), lowest 220 (1997).
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of interest to this topic:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20812848
Biological Determinants of Immune Reconstitution in HIV-Infected Patients Receiving Antiretroviral Therapy: The Role of Interleukin 7 and Interleukin 7 Receptor alpha and Microbial Translocation.
I was doing some research as I was so surprised to see on one hand my CD4 climb from 450 to 800 in 2 months (therefore a 350 increase at 8 weeks after starting ARV) and on the other a slower than expected virologic response (VL at 220 at week 11) (currently redoing genotype and discussing possible resistance...)
How strange ...
Eric
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Hey Billy
Thanks for this thread. I have been wanting to discuss high CD4 numbers for a while.
I have you beat by 9, I am currently at 1365 however I have not started treatment yet.
What I would like to know is WHY?
I have heard so many opinions on here:
Supplements are useless
Supplements are helpful
Nutrition is key
Stress/lifestyle are important factors.
HAART is the only factor.
It's all in the Genes
Smoking reduced viral load (ok just seeing if anyone is awake lol :)
etc etc etc
I have even heard an anthroploogist theorize that the reason why Apes beat their chest before battle is because the Thymus (which is like the lymphatic brain which produces T-Cells) is located there and by tapping it you can stimulate the production of T-Cells!
So Billy as a fellow high CD4er do you have any idea what factors play a part in your high CD4 numbers? I wonder if there are any common traits we can discover that contribute to high CD4 numbers.
I would also like to ask the experts and experienced posters on this forum. Is CD4 really a good indication of immune function? I have heard that the numbers can fluctuate GREATLY based on several factors: the lab you test at, the test kit they use, time- from day to day or even hour to hour (higher at night, lower in the daytime for example). I have also heard that people even with high CD4 numbers can still get sick, feel bad whereas some people can stay relatively healthy with low numbers. So I wonder if CD4 is the holy grail of HIV disease progression. Since it is a new disease, I wonder if they are doing any other basic research into other body systems that might play a factor in this disease.
I was reading about CD4 on wikipedia and apparently CD4 cells were discovered in in the late 70s and were only named in 1984. So using CD4 as a measure of immune function is a relatively new technique (as is this virus for that matter). I know they don't routinely test uninfected individuals CD4 numbers (do they?). I want to learn more about this issue, are there any microbiologists out there that know of the initial basic research that went into studying CD4 and its usefulness in disease progression. I wonder if there are other factors and if so what they are. Any ideas?
I have one idea that I stumbled upon accidentally when I was researching and it has to do with IL-2/4/6/12 levels for those of you that know what those are.
Has anyone asked their doctors about the specific significance of CD4 numbers? When I asked I basically got "it's normal" or "its in the normal range or variability".
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11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451 !!!
Your VL is very LOW ... Congrats! Do you think it is due to the antioxydants?
Could you please detail a bit: brand names, etc.
Thanks in advance
Eric
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11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451 !!!
Your VL is very LOW ... Congrats! Do you think it is due to the antioxydants?
Could you please detail a bit: brand names, etc.
Thanks in advance
Eric
VL low from Antioxidants, No.
I am not sure about my VL numbers that was a surprise to me as well. I did however embark on a 4 month research period where I studied my new illness 16 hours a day (i'm a bit obsessive). I was specifically looking for a way to boost or maintain CD4 numbers (immune reconstruction after the acute infection). I would like to say that I found something but to be truthful I did not.
I came up with the same anti-oxidant list that everyone else who likes supplements mentions on here however I do not believe anti-oxidants are the answer (although I am not convinced they are useless either and I do concede there is no good evidence to show either way).
Instead I came across something completely be accident. I started taking a supplement (a very common endogenous hormone produced by the pituitary gland) for an unrelated benzodiazepine withdraw problem as a sleep aid. It functioned well for helping me sleep but I did not think that it had anything to do with my infection at that time.
One day as I was researching I typed the name if each supplement I was taking into pub med plus HIV. So for example: "Vitamin D, HIV" "Selenium, HIV" etc. Ever search returned hundreds of studies, often conflicting or small in size, nothing that screamed out to me "this is the one".
All except this hormone, I only got 4 results- there was almost NO research done on it in the context of HIV. I found this interesting. As I started to understand thing like what the Thymus gland is (and what stimulates it), why CD4 levels are highest at night and lowest in the daytime, Interleukin and how they operate I started to think there might be something to this. I have no research, no evidence other than myself as anecdotal and just an incomplete theory.
Also my own results aren't that spectacular if you consider that I have only been monitoring for just over 6 months. I might get the next test and my CD4 might be 400 (I hope not!)
I think to really get an idea of disease progression you have to look at a long term view >2 or >5 years. So until I can put all of the pieces together and talk to an endocrinologist I will just keep researching and maybe come up with a coherent theory. I am still learning and I am a noob, until then I am not sure it would be responsible to tell my theory to the world and I don't want to upset anyone and I may very well be wrong.
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Mine was staying around 200 and below for the longest time until the last check as I have changed my regiman too. It is Combivir , reyataz , Isentress plus many other profalactics for many other things that are wrong with me.
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Mine was staying around 200 and below for the longest time until the last check as I have changed my regiman too. It is Combivir , reyataz , Isentress plus many other profalactics for many other things that are wrong with me.
What do you attribute your resistance to? Did you ever take Acyclovir for Herpes infection?
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Natthai, sorry, I missed a point, your numbers are taken very close to time of infection, so things have not stabilized yet...
Take care Eric
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Natthai, sorry, I missed a point, your numbers are taken very close to time of infection, so things have not stabilized yet...
Take care Eric
Yeah you are probably right, I am just 7 month into things. My Doctor told me that I hit my "set point" if that means that same thing as stabilized I don't know but I think it probably takes 2 or 3 years of consistent results to show something right?
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Well, you will want to check closely. Without meds, some people do not even have 2-3 years.
But, your numbers are good, indeed...When CD4 is high , % high and VL low, there is no hurry.
I wonder... I think this thread was trying to figure out hwo well people RECOVER after meds.
Your numbers, for as nice as they are, may be out of context. Lucky you... Eric
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Hey Billy
Thanks for this thread. I have been wanting to discuss high CD4 numbers for a while.
I have you beat by 9, I am currently at 1365 however I have not started treatment yet.
What I would like to know is WHY?
So Billy as a fellow high CD4er do you have any idea what factors play a part in your high CD4 numbers?
Hi guys,
sorry for late reply. By the way, by the end of this week I will get my updated numbers... so let's see what they will be. Actually I don't hope any big changes to previous.
Anyhow, till to date I am 32 yrs old. So regarding your question why my CD4 count is quite high - I have no idea, but I will let you see a bit in my daily life.
Sleeping about 7 hrs
Working about 9 hrs
Sports about 3-5 times per week (gym/tennis) about 1-2 hrs
smoker: yes, 5-8 cigs per day
alcohol: no, just 1-2 drinks per week
drugs: no
sex / stroking: ::) ??? 8)
HAART: regularly (average miss 1 per month)
My nutrition is quite usual. Sometimes I have 3 dishes per day / sometime 2 and some sweet stuff. It depends. Breakfast always some toast and milk. Evenings some yoguhrt, maybe toast again, eggs, noodles, normal stuff. I don't take any "special" supplements. I just drink my juice, also "Actimel" / "vie" (for the European guys ;-) about every second day. And about every 6 months I do a "cell oxygene immune complex" treatment. It's an immune power "drink". I don't know how to explain, but you can google with "Zell Oxygen Immunkomplex by Dr Wolz". I really don't know is the last thing causes my CD4s...
My Doc was also wondering, especially at my test from June with CD4 1600+. Anyhow, I hope this info is useful... take care guys
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I wonder if smoking (tobacco) can actually be immune stimulating in some way. Many of the LTNP or LTSP I have talked to are active smokers. I myself had taken up smoking/chewing nicotine gum for a period. I also read a shocking study that suggested very directly that nicotine directly interferes with KS! Nicotine is a pretty messy drug in that it affects a lot of brain chemistry and I know that at least one neurochemical- tryptaphan (an amino acid) is indicated in HIV disease progression. Anyone else have an idea about smoking and HIV?
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Highest: 411, lowest: 37.
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Highest for me so far was 1365 (my last) however I have a feeling that my next one will be substantially lower. I read that CD4 fluxuates sometimes as much as 100-200 between visits. Anyone longtermers know about this, are you aware of any studies that show the variation of CD4 say on a 3-6 month basis?
I think I also read that if untreated CD4 will generally drop at a constant rate of 20-30/year until <200 and AIDS. Has anyone heard this as well?
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I think I also read that if untreated CD4 will generally drop at a constant rate of 20-30/year until <200 and AIDS. Has anyone heard this as well?
I have heard that, and I have also heard that it would drop at a rate of 50 t-cells a year. But whichever one of these is true, (or if the truth is some other number) they are averages, and like all averages they mask a great deal of variety from one individual to the next. My yearly average hasn't dropped at all if I'm calculating correctly.
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I wonder if smoking (tobacco) can actually be immune stimulating in some way. Many of the LTNP or LTSP I have talked to are active smokers. . Anyone else have an idea about smoking and HIV?
natthai
I remember reading about this some time ago, I found the link, apparently smokers have on average higher CD4 count by 140
From www.aidsmap.com
http://www.aidsmap.com/resources/CD4-cell-counts/page/1254931/
" CD4 cell counts in people without HIV
A normal CD4 cell count in an HIV-negative man is between 400 and 1600 per cubic millimetre of blood (but doctors normally just give a figure, e.g. 500). CD4 cell counts in HIV-negative women tend to be a little higher, between 500 and 1700.
Even if you don’t have HIV, many factors can affect your CD4 cell count. For example it’s known that:
* Women have higher CD4 cell counts than men (by about 100).
* Women’s CD4 cell counts go up and down during the menstrual cycle.
* Oral contraceptives can lower a woman’s CD4 cell count.
* Smokers tend to have higher CD4 cell counts (by about 140).
* CD4 cell counts fall after rest – by as much as 40%.
* A good night’s sleep can mean that you have a lower CD4 cell count the following morning, but a higher CD4 cell count the next afternoon.
None of these factors seems to make any difference to how able your immune system is to fight infections.
Only a small portion of your body's CD4 cells are in the blood. The rest are in the lymph nodes and tissue, and the fluctuations noted above might be due to the movement of CD4 cells between blood and tissue."
sam
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Thanks for the link Sam. I took a look at it but it didn't mention why smokers test to have on average higher cd4 counts. Have you read any theory on this, is it the nicotine affecting brain chemistry which in turn affects immune responce or perhaps another chemical or is it the body's response to the inhalation of organic combustible material inside the lungs. If it has something to do with nicotine then chewing the gum or wearing the patch might have some therapudic benefit. My quick google result didn't return anything positive about smoking and disease progression so I don't know if anyone has any theories about this. Are there any smokers here that have an opinion on this idea?
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Hi,
From recent readings, I kind of getting to that CD4 (helpers to fight diseases) are not a one type fit all category (like red cells)
one has CD4 compartments of specialized, dedicated CD4 cells. Say you have one acute infection, CD4 will rapidly clone themselves to win the war by having more troopers.
If one has a chronic low grade infection that requires CD4s to fight that chronic infection, then a section of CD4s specializes in that infection.
Say you are a country with no sea access (such as Switzerland), then your Navy is relatively small since you even do not have a coast guard corps.
And when you count the number of the military, then they are obviously less...
Countries need an army and policy to be ready to fight potential threats. Countries under permanent threat need bigger armies
One good example is the contingent of some 50.000 US troops stationed in South Korea to 'permanently' protect that border. It makes the US army bigger by 50.000.
But they are used to a specific purpose and can not be reassigned to some other 'attacks'.
So in my views (I admit personal), a smoker with 540 CD4 is NOT having a better immune system than a non smoker with 400 CD4 since the 140 cd4 compartment is specific to fight the chronic tobacco related inflammation and would be of little use for some other attacks.
Which is why, given a certain level of CD4s, one should start looking at CD4/CD8 ratio for example as an indicator of a healthy immune system.
Size DOES matter...
but, unless the numbers are low, numbers may not necessarily matter as much and mean a healthier immune system
numbers (like money) matter to some who do not have enough.
It makes little difference owning 10 million or 100 million (especially when 90 millions are stuck in a long term trust and can not be use to by that lively new 20 million house you are looking at...
Cheers
Eric
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Eric,
That is an excellent and well reasoned reply, I belive you are right on. Thanks for the insight!
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Hi,
From recent readings, I kind of getting to that CD4 (helpers to fight diseases) are not a one type fit all category (like red cells)
Eric
Hi Eric
Excellent post , yes
I agree, From talking to my doctor, and reading about CD4 and CD4% , my opinion is; it is not an , one size fits all exact science. I think its very difficult to compare the immune systems of two individuals by comparing their CD4 numbers .
Someone with a relatively low CD4 count could have much stronger immune system than someone with a much higher CD4 count.
sam
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Eric,
Excellent reasoned post.
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I'm still waiting for the >5 option on this poll.
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I'm still waiting for the >5 option on this poll.
your wish is my command ;-)
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WOW! :)
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hi billy,
how is ur latest count?? is that good?
When u take the Zell Oxygen, do u feel headache, tiredness, getting weak, vomit or diarrhea symptoms?
Hi guys,
sorry for late reply. By the way, by the end of this week I will get my updated numbers... so let's see what they will be. Actually I don't hope any big changes to previous.
Anyhow, till to date I am 32 yrs old. So regarding your question why my CD4 count is quite high - I have no idea, but I will let you see a bit in my daily life.
Sleeping about 7 hrs
Working about 9 hrs
Sports about 3-5 times per week (gym/tennis) about 1-2 hrs
smoker: yes, 5-8 cigs per day
alcohol: no, just 1-2 drinks per week
drugs: no
sex / stroking: ::) ??? 8)
HAART: regularly (average miss 1 per month)
My nutrition is quite usual. Sometimes I have 3 dishes per day / sometime 2 and some sweet stuff. It depends. Breakfast always some toast and milk. Evenings some yoguhrt, maybe toast again, eggs, noodles, normal stuff. I don't take any "special" supplements. I just drink my juice, also "Actimel" / "vie" (for the European guys ;-) about every second day. And about every 6 months I do a "cell oxygene immune complex" treatment. It's an immune power "drink". I don't know how to explain, but you can google with "Zell Oxygen Immunkomplex by Dr Wolz". I really don't know is the last thing causes my CD4s...
My Doc was also wondering, especially at my test from June with CD4 1600+. Anyhow, I hope this info is useful... take care guys
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1712 cd4 back in January
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1712 cd4 back in January
Show off :-*
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Highest, over 1,000. Just after infection.
Lowest, 24. It has been a long road, but I have been hovering near 500 for over a year now.
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Hi guys,
actually I want to hug everyone around me :P
Today I got my new results... and I was VERY surprised. My CD4 count is 1.356!
I was hoping to have 800+ but this exceeds my expectations by far.
So what was your highest CD4 count... so that I can have a target for my next test after summer.
Hugs & Kisses
Billy
What brought your number down to 700 on 5/11.
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1712 cd4 back in January
I wonder why you need so many of them? Didn't you recently just have a cold or bronchitis or a sinus infection? You better tell all of those CD4 cells to get to work!
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I wonder why you need so many of them? Didn't you recently just have a cold or bronchitis or a sinus infection? You better tell all of those CD4 cells to get to work!
Miss P has so many Cd4 cells we may need to crochet a Cd4 cell cozy holder for all the extra ones , ain't nothin worse than dusty cd4 cells .
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Miss P has so many Cd4 cells we may need to crochet a Cd4 cell cozy holder for all the extra ones , ain't nothin worse than dusty cd4 cells .
I thought Miss P had someone come in once a week for a light dusting?
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I wonder why you need so many of them? Didn't you recently just have a cold or bronchitis or a sinus infection? You better tell all of those CD4 cells to get to work!
I'll know in a month how well they recovered, so at that point you can eat your words. I also had two major infections post-surgery to boot.
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1712 cd4 back in January
*** REVISED *** found my last results from May 16th and I had 1785 cd4 (highest they've ever been in 19 years, and actually that exceeds the lab's reference range) / 52.5% VL <20 copies/mL
However my Vitamin D was 0.2 below normal range
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2nuocwx.gif)
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July 16 blood drawn on a late hot afternoon...
CD4: 1400 CD4 % : 51
CD8 : 577 CD8 % : 21
CD4/CD8 ratio: 2.43
I'am usually on an average of 700...
That me be an outlier, but it makes me feels good
Cheers
Eric