How long does HIV "survive" outside the body?

[scared1968]

First of all, congratulations for what you have been doing these last years. I've read in this forum that HIV is very fragile. When exposed to the air it becomes non-viable. A guy put his finger (with pre-cum on it) into my anus for approximately 10 minutes. When I got home I noticed that my anus was bleeding (because of the trauma, obviously). He is HIV+. Please I would like to make 3 questions:

1)how long does it take to become non-viable? I am asking this because there are just seconds (1-2) until the finger is inserted. Would it be enough to "kill" the virus?
2)could you quote any study(ies) about this?

Scared1968

[Andy Velez]

Keep it simple. There has never been a confirmed case of transmission in the manner you are concerned about -- fingering including with pre-cum involved.

You are worrying needlessly. It's a common sexual activity so if it was a risk of any sort we would have known long before today.

[scared1968]

Thanks for your quick answer Andy. So are you sure I don't even get tested because of this event? I have a sore throat (2 weeks after event) and I am desperate. Then, is there no specifics study for being fingered?

[Andy Velez]

If you have a persistent sore throat that is something to discuss with your doctor.

If I had any doubts about a risk I would say so. I don't. And we're very careful here about evaluating risk level.

I don't have studies to point to at the moment. You don't need them. You're just feeding your unwarranted fears. 

[scared1968]

Andy, thanks very much for your answer. I was wondering (by reading all these posts) how you (and Ann, RapidRod etc) can have so much patience to answer the same questions over and over again (for all these years!!!!). As far as I may fell you do it with passion (whatever the reason is). And, despite all these posts, everyone seems to desire his own response (always thinking his case has a particular – and unprecedented – issue).

Ann and RapidRod, could you quote any study(ies) about my question?

PS.: Just out of curiosity: if unprotected anal and vaginal intercourse are the only proved cases, why so many people still get HIV since nowadays it is not so easy to find anyone who does not use condoms (at least here in US).

Scared

[RapidRod]

Andy, thanks very much for your answer. I was wondering (by reading all these posts) how you (and Ann, RapidRod etc) can have so much patience to answer the same questions over and over again (for all these years!!!!). As far as I may fell you do it with passion (whatever the reason is). And, despite all these posts, everyone seems to desire his own response (always thinking his case has a particular – and unprecedented – issue).

Ann and RapidRod, could you quote any study(ies) about my question?

PS.: Just out of curiosity: if unprotected anal and vaginal intercourse are the only proved cases, why so many people still get HIV since nowadays it is not so easy to find anyone who does not use condoms (at least here in US).

Scared

You have a fallacy in your thinking.

[scared1968]

Which one?

[RapidRod]

That's it's hard to find people that doesn't use condoms. It's not uncommon at all. Take five minutes and read the forum. Most that post haven't used a condom for vaginal and anal penetrative sex.

[scared1968]

Thanks RapidRod. Well, probably I am wrong since my thinking is perhaps based on my circle of friends.

Ann or RapidRod, would you quote any study(ies) about my first question?

Thanks again,

Scared

[Andy Velez]

If you have a persistent sore throat that is something to discuss with your doctor.

If I had any doubts about a risk I would say so. I don't. And we're very careful here about evaluating risk level.

I don't have studies to point to at the moment. You don't need them. You're just feeding your unwarranted fears. 

Do yourself a big favor, let this go and move on with your life. Really. Your continuing pursuit will only feed your unwarranted fears. We're not going there with you.

[Ann]

Scared,

I don't have any specific studies bookmarked nor do I have time to go googling for one. But it has been well known for decades that hiv is very fragile. This is one of the reasons it has been a difficult virus to study - any labs dealing with the actual, whole virus have to be rigorously climate controlled and the specimens must be keep in conditions that mimic the inside of the human body as closely as possible. There used to be a lad who posted here who was an hiv researcher and he used to tell us how most of the specimens had to be thrown out because they had been rendered non-viable through tiny changes in their environment. It used to frustrate the hell out of him.

What happens to the hiv virus when it is not inside the body is that it literally explodes. The membrane that surrounds it can be likened to a soap bubble - easily popped. Most other viruses have membranes that could be more closely likened to an armour suit and that is why they can survive on surfaces outside the body while hiv cannot. Hiv has to be intact in order to be able to infect.

If hiv were as viable as most people seem to think, almost everyone would be hiv positive, just like almost everyone has, at one time or another, fallen prey to the one or more strains of the viruses that cause flu.

To avoid hiv infection, make sure you are getting a FULL sexual health check up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year, twice a year if you're very active with several partners, or any time you experience a condom break. (You should not be experiencing condom breaks if you're using and storing them properly - read through the condom and lube links in my signature line. The first one is particularly informative.)

You also must be using condoms, every time, no exceptions, regardless of what you are told or think you know about a person's hiv status, until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have BOTH tested negative for hiv and all the other STIs as well.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!!!

Ann

[Ann]

PS.: Just out of curiosity: if unprotected anal and vaginal intercourse are the only proved cases, why so many people still get HIV since nowadays it is not so easy to find anyone who does not use condoms (at least here in US).

If that were true, then the US would not lead the developed world in teenage pregnancy and other unplanned pregnancies. There would have been no reason for Americans to coin the term "baby momma".

The combined rate of live births and abortions in the US in women between the ages of 15-19 is 85.8 out of every 1000 women. That's a lot of no condoms.

Ann

[scared1968]

Thanks for your (Andy, Ann and RapidRod) explanation. It really makes sense.
RapidRod, I took some minutes reading the forum. It is not true - however - that "most that post haven't used a condom for vaginal and anal penetrative sex". Probably I was wrong on my statement, but only the minority (by far) admits having had unproteced anal/vaginal intercourse.

Thanks again,

scared

[jkinatl2]

Alright, this has gotten sad.

The vast majority of the members of this forum, outside of the Just Tested Positive forum, admit to having had unprotected anal and vaginal sex. One member that I know of has acquired HIV through a needlestick injury.

You say that all your friends use condoms? Really? Do you watch your friends have sex? Because what people SAY and what they DO are often different things. People use their visual cues "She doesnt look sick" and verbal/written pledges "She said she was clean" to provide a backdrop on some pretty risky behavior.

The only behavior that matters here is yours. And the only science I respect is first tiered peer review. You can choose to do the same, or not.

[Ann]

Scared,

Because what people SAY and what they DO are often different things.

What Jonathan said is very true and worth repeating. People often won't admit to risky behaviour because they don't want to hear the lecture. Sometimes people forget what they've done under the influence of drink and/or drugs.

Also, as Jonathan alluded to, sometimes people make judgements on other people's health or what they think they know about someone's history and decide that the person in question could not possibly be carrying hiv or any other STI. Therefore, they don't "count" risky behaviours they have engaged in with such people. We see it here all the time - people freak out because they've had protected sex with a sex worker or someone else they deem as high risk, all the while ignoring the unprotected sex they had with the "girl next door".

As Jonathan also said, The only behaviour that matters here is yours. Keep using condoms and using them correctly and you will be well protected where hiv is concerned.

Ann

[scared1968]

Sorry bothering you again.
1)Do you think we can produce ARS symptoms as a result of anxiety (sore throat)?
2)Are you sure the virus "died" before the finger was put in my anus (with pre-cum)?
Thanks,

[anniebc]

1...NO.


2..YES.

You ahve been given some great advise from the experts here, I would take it and walk away, you will have nothing to worry about if you use Condomn at all times....NO EXCEPTIONS.

Jan

[scared1968]

Thanks again for your help. But sorry to be write again.

I read an interesting response from Dr. Hook about being fingered: "The hand is a poor vehicle for transmission of biological fluid so that for his finger to  go to your anus is low risk.  The presence of pre-ejaculatory fluid does however increase risk.  There are few, if any studies that I am aware of which successfully show that there is less risk from pre-ejaculatory fluid than from ejaculate itself.  From my perspective this is splitting hairs.  We do know that women regularly get pregnant following sex without ejaculation or from only "brief" durations of intercourse.  While a single sex act is statistically far less likely to transmit HIV than to result in a pregnancy, there is still risk and for me to reassure you to the contrary would not be correct."

So, just one more question (I promisse you):

If there is no study how do you get that conclusion?

[Andy Velez]

Do yourself a big favor, let this go and move on with your life. Really. Your continuing pursuit will only feed your unwarranted fears. We're not going there with you.

What I said earlier still applies. You can dabble all you want to in this unproductive "research." We're not going there with you. We evaluate levels of risk for specific situations and give you our thoughts about same. You were not at risk and you should get on with your life.

If you continue to return here with more of the same you are going to find yourself getting a Time Out from the site for at least 28 days. HIV is not your problem and sexually it won't be as long as you consistently use condoms for vaginal and anal intercourse. Believe it or not.

[scared1968]

Sorry, Andy. Many thanks. I will not bother you any longer.

[scared1968]

just letting you know I got tested this morning. After 9 weeks, HIV test came back negative.Rapidrod, Ann and Andy, thanks for your help.