POZ Community Forums
Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: J.R.E. on August 19, 2009, 07:54:45 am
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Barny Frank at a town hall...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8&eurl=http://headonradionetwork.com/&feature=player_embedded
Ray
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LOL I thought his answer was pretty funny and very appropriate! I've got to say that I feel somewhat embarrassed for her, though; her stupidity is now where it can be viewed by all. I guess it should serve as a reminder to not look like an ass when the situation is being documented.
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What's saddest is that this woman will now become a cheerleader for Republicans, because Barney was so "mean" to her. She has no idea of what he was saying and it's apparent she's about as sharp as a marble. When you can only spew pablum, fed to you by others, you have to just know that eventually you will get caught and when you do, it won't be pretty. For her to compare health care reform with Nazi Germany is pure insanity and Barney would have had a better exchange with her dining room table.
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No sweety the topic is not mental health reform..... bet she's good in bed though!
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I think Barney has some explaining to do -- How insulting -- how does he think all the dining room tables in the country now feel? ;D
This sort of person is truly unable to form a rational thought or take part in a logical debate -- he definitely had the right approach.
Mike
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The old saying goes, "Don't bite the had that feeds you."
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The old saying goes, "Don't bite the had that feeds you."
??? ???
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This video is CLASSIC! I want to see more ass whooping like the one Barney Frank gave. Two great vids from Mr. Frank in a month - the man is on a roll...
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Barney is as his usual brilliant self. :-*
The girl sadly looks like she just got back from a beachfront holiday in the Sahara and desperately needs a soda from the mirage in her mind. :D
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Really belongs in the annals of history, for this event.
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Barney was "frank" and "fierce"! And yes, he did it!
By the way, hello everyone!
Will post a catch up later.
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Sorry, but I have to post this again.
I believe that lady in the town hall was part of the Lyndon LaRouche gang. They always try to link Obama to Hitler. They are a pretty nutty group of nutjobs. I think there also is a link to the John Burch Society and the Lyndon LaRouche followers. Both groups believe in some crazy ideas, just enough to be dangerous. If Im not mistaken, their people are also the ones bringing-wearing the guns to Obama healthcare events. These are the people the NRA protects.
There is no reason and no real connection to reform and these crazies coming out of the woodwork.
Its just their chance to take advantage of an opportunity. Obama, a black president and government. Both of which they will not tolerate.
Its not healthcare, its just their chance to wear guns in public, and link Obama to Hitler, in protest of their anti government beliefs. Actually, it goes back to Reagan. Not the 1980's Reagan, but the 1960's Reagan "American Medical Association" spokesman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FzNTB1qtFA
The lady at the town hall, guns in public, the John Burch Society, the Lyndon LaRouche gang and the 1960's Reagan. They are all linked. And dare I say.... many republicans. At least... many republicans, and the Rush Limbaugh's, have found an odd-fellow relationship. The Lyndon LaRouche gang can use the town halls as an outlet, and the republicans welcome the anti Obama policy ranting.
This odd fellow relationship is very dangerous for the republicans to align themselves with.
If it backfires, and it will, that could destroy the republican party as we know it.
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Sorry, but I have to post this again.
I believe that lady in the town hall was part of the Lyndon LaRouche gang. They always try to link Obama to Hitler. They are a pretty nutty group of nutjobs. I think there also is a link to the John Burch Society and the Lyndon LaRouche followers. Both groups believe in some crazy ideas, just enough to be dangerous. If Im not mistaken, their people are also the ones bringing-wearing the guns to Obama healthcare events. These are the people the NRA protects.
There is no reason and no real connection to reform and these crazies coming out of the woodwork.
Its just their chance to take advantage of an opportunity. Obama, a black president and government. Both of which they will not tolerate.
Its not healthcare, its just their chance to wear guns in public, and link Obama to Hitler, in protest of their anti government beliefs. Actually, it goes back to Reagan. Not the 1980's Reagan, but the 1960's Reagan "American Medical Association" spokesman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FzNTB1qtFA
The lady at the town hall, guns in public, the John Burch Society, the Lyndon LaRouche gang and the 1960's Reagan. They are all linked. And dare I say.... many republicans. At least... many republicans, and the Rush Limbaugh's, have found an odd-fellow relationship. The Lyndon LaRouche gang can use the town halls as an outlet, and the republicans welcome the anti Obama policy ranting.
This odd fellow relationship is very dangerous for the republicans to align themselves with.
If it backfires, and it will, that could destroy the republican party as we know it.
Give me a break.
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Give me a break.
No, it's true that she was part of the Lyndon LaRouche movement. It was in several MSM news reports. However, the people strapping on guns to their legs and showing up are part of some different group, and at least one has been shown to have a connection to a 90's militia group.
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How about Obama's plants and the mass emails?
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If you're moving the goalposts and desire an honest discussion, perhaps you should provide some information about what exactly you're referring to, Roddles.
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How about Obama's plants and the mass emails?
Where are these plants? And are you seriously comparing mass emails dispelling ultra-right-wing lies to people who show up at town halls to scream about "watering the tree of liberty" and compare the president to Hitler?
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Now this would make a great youtube moment. A conservative mo attends a townhall and gets the chance to speak. They spout off the usual right wing Obama bashing talking points to the applause and cheers of the frenzied crowd. Delighted by the response they close by telling the crowd and "oh by the way I'm gay and have da aids, probably caught it from too many pee-pees up the old pooper. Thank God I have healthcare. Anyone want to catch a beer after the meeting?" It would be all over cable.
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tee hee
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Where are these plants? And are you seriously comparing mass emails dispelling ultra-right-wing lies to people who show up at town halls to scream about "watering the tree of liberty" and compare the president to Hitler?
Yeah, you guys will fall for anything. Just like what he was going to do for all the gays. Now there is a big joke, what has he done for the gay community? Nothing, nor is he going to. Universal health care? No such thing. It's called affordable health care, if the name doesn't change again before the first of the year.
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Details on these "plants" Roddles. Put up or shut up.
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If we hurry, we can all go over to Rapidrod's, for an intervention and possible deprogramming.
Never mind, it's too late...
Ray
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You gay guys are so gullible. I bet you numnutz believed there were WMD's.
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Be careful Ray cuz Obama is gonna put everyone in a communist, facist, socialist, pragmatist, organist, grocerylist, HitlerStalinMaoPolPotCastroMussoliniHillaryCare style reeducation camp.
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Be careful Ray cuz Obama is gonna put everyone in a communist, facist, socialist, pragmatist, organist, grocerylist, HitlerStalinMaoPolPotCastroMussoliniHillaryCare style reeducation camp.
They will have to pry my longwetvibratingdildo out of my hands before I let that happen LOL :D
Ray
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If we hurry, we can all go over to Rapidrod's, for an intervention and possible deprogramming.
Never mind, it's too late...
Ray
I'll Drive ;D
But while I agree 100% with Obama that reform is needed now, and a government "option" is the only way to control the massive "healthcare for profit" industry, I have to admit it has crossed my mind on timing as to Obama. I mean, Ted Kennedy is very ill. He won't be around much longer, either in the flesh or in the senate. So it has occurred to me that Obama passing real healthcare reform, Ted Kennedy's life long fight, would be a nice victory to hand Ted in his last days. So in some part, I wonder if Kennedy's condition was one major motivating factors.
But true or not, doesn't matter cause we do need this reform now. Right now.
We have seen that delaying, as they did by missing the August deadline they sought, just gave republicans an opening to conjour up lies and fear. The more we wait on reform, the more dirty little tricks republicans will come up with.
I'd personally LOVE to just see the democrats to get their act together, and do it all on their own.
You would see Obama's poll ratings soar overnight, and huge gains by democrats in the next elections.
Why? Because regardless of what the news media covers, people really want this reform to happen.
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I'd personally LOVE to just see the democrats to get their act together, and do it all on their own.
Isn't that what every progressive would like to see? As it is now, it seems the Democrats could have 99 seats in the senate and would still be unable to pass anything meaningful because they'd be trying to strike a "bipartisan agreement" with the lone Republican.
There's one thing the Republicans and Bush especially were great at: getting things done. They governed like they had a massive majority and the nation on their side even when they didn't.
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I'd personally LOVE to just see the democrats to get their act together, and do it all on their own.
You would see Obama's poll ratings soar overnight, and huge gains by democrats in the next elections.
Why? Because regardless of what the news media covers, people really want this reform to happen.
If only this were true -- but I think what we need is real leadership and politicians who are willing to lose an election in order to do what they were elected to do. Forget the polls and the hand-wringing and do what is required
Why do I say this... because most Americans want change, so long as it does not negatively impact them. For health care, that means most people have insurance that is serving them well or at least well enough and don't want to risk that. You constantly hear people saying that we should "throw the bums out" in Congress, because they are all self-serviing -- yet we continue to see the power of incumbency. You see -- people think that they are all bums -- except for theirs.
People THINK this should be easy -- and in a perfect world, it would be. However, this isn't a perfect world and this is going to be very hard -- and as I've said repeatedly, we all have to be prepared (and accepting) of incremental change. Changes that will keep us heading down the right path to a destination that we need to get to -- if we insist on getting there in one step, we go nowhere.
Mike
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Yeah, you guys will fall for anything.
Oh FFS I'm falling down laughing at this point. Rod, on one hand I love you to bits, on the other hand, ... oh dear. You've been drinking the kool-aid, dear, haven't you?
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You've been drinking the kool-aid, dear, haven't you?
Being that he lives in the woods I hope he's not using well water to make his kool-aid again.
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Oh FFS I'm falling down laughing at this point. Rod, on one hand I love you to bits, on the other hand, ... oh dear. You've been drinking the kool-aid, dear, haven't you?
And the same goes here Ann. I always love the two cents the people throw in that don't even live in the US and don't vote here in the US.
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There are 4 million Americans living abroad (excluding military). You don't give up your right as a US citizen just because you live outside the country. US citizens, regardless of where they live, have every right to participate in decisions being made in the country (and are still allowed to vote)!
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Wasn't said at all was it Cliff? YOU don't use the US healthcare system either now do you Cliff. Enough said..
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Actually Rod, I do. I still have my US health insurance and used it the last time I was there for check up. And I intend on repatriating back to the US, which means I will be on whatever system is settled on. Oh and I also still file annual taxes to the US and pay money into the system. Do you?
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Actually Rod, I do. I still have my US health insurance and used it the last time I was there for check up. And I intend on repatriating back to the US, which means I will be on whatever system is settled on. Oh and I also still file annual taxes to the US and pay money into the system. Do you?
Yes I do Cliff I still have to pay taxes.
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we all have to be prepared (and accepting) of incremental change.
Mike
Does your incremental change include the fifty million of us that have no health insurance? You're naive to think that even incremental change is possible when one side is intractable in it's efforts to stonewall, which in effect will defeat any meaningful healthcare policy. Obama campaigned on healthcare, and the American people overwhelmingly elected Democrats to get healthcare done this year.
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Damn right he did!
And its time for Obama to stop the bi-partisan bullcrap and get with the Dems and just do what we want. There is NO need for republicans whatsoever, neither in the House nor the Senate. What is this nonsense bi-partisanship.....
What will be more interesting is to WIN the war.
Republicans BELIEVE the lies, its death panels, and its assistance to undeserving illegal aliens and lazy unemployed dimwits. They BELIEVE free-market crap and have NO dissonance about the rest of the rich countries actually taking care of all its citizens.. That argument falls on deaf ears.
Win the war, screw the Republicans, from the joe republican who might be forgivin his bias and ignorance, to the Republican powerbrokers, who are playing politics at the expense of the public's well-being. Its HIDEOUS. Screw them. Just pass a bill and get on with the next policy already. We ain't gonna get to make Obama squirm about Don't Ask Don't Tell if this fails. Maybe if we win, he'll get his balls back and come through on the whole agenda. Clock is ticking.....
And shame on the Democrats! You know, if you are the stronger team, and now the game is starting, you don't pass the ball to the other team, or "go easy". You score score score. The weasly weak Republicans in Congress are NOT stupid and will exploit any opportunity given to them. Obviously. Geez, didn't any of these Congressmen play team sports. You shake hands AFTER the game, after you've obliterated them.
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Does your incremental change include the fifty million of us that have no health insurance? You're naive to think that even incremental change is possible when one side is intractable in it's efforts to stonewall, which in effect will defeat any meaningful healthcare policy. Obama campaigned on healthcare, and the American people overwhelmingly elected Democrats to get healthcare done this year.
No where did Obama say they they would get it done this year unless your are thinking Obama's term is going to be just a year.
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No where did Obama say they they would get it done this year unless your are thinking Obama's term is going to be just a year.
If it's just a year is it still considered a term?
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No where did Obama say they they would get it done this year unless your are thinking Obama's term is going to be just a year.
Oh Rod, just another example of your total lack of reading comprehension skills. Maybe Bush can stop by and read My Pet Goat to you.
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Details on these "plants" Roddles. Put up or shut up.
Gonna back up the assertion that you made, Roddles or not?
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No where did Obama say they they would get it done this year unless your are thinking Obama's term is going to be just a year.
This is Obama's quote " healthcare reform can not wait, it must not wait, and it will not wait ANOTHER year"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnpzzxPupvQ
Ray
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And the same goes here Ann. I always love the two cents the people throw in that don't even live in the US and don't vote here in the US.
Well, maybe so, Rodney, but I still have family who live in the States - and plenty of friends too - and I'm concerned about their well-being and access to affordable healthcare. Hell, I'm concerned about your well-being and access to affordable healthcare too, along with every other forum member who lives in the States. I'm still an American, so is my daughter, (and we both have the passports to prove it) and last I knew, it wasn't against the law to have an opinion on what's going on in the land of my birth. :)
Ann
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Oh come on Ann... he's talking about the Palinesque "Real Americans"!
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I never thought that a political thread could be so much fun. What I still find so frustrating is that Republicans can only say "no" this or that will not work, but they offer no ALTERNATIVES at all. They send their minions to the town hall meetings to compare Obama with Hitler, which adds absolutely nothing to any debate on health care and then just sit back and watch the resulting mess. I also find it very condescending when anyone brings in other issues to the health care debate, like gay rights, that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.
Granted Obama has not moved as fast as I would like on some gay issues, but at least the man is not trying to alter the Constitution to relegate gays to permanent second class citizens. Sure can't say that about the Republicans or our former shrub and that's part of the reason that the Republicans got their ass handed to them this past election, because they are hopelessly out of touch with "real" Americans. No, not the Palin kool-aid kind, but the millions who either have no health insurance, or it is so limited as to force many of them into bankruptcy due to health care costs.
However, what I find insulting is anyone suggesting that just because I don't live in America I should have no say in what MY COUNTRY does in terms of affordable health care. It is this holier than thou attitude that makes some Americans look like real jerks in the eyes of the world. So let me share with you how my Canadian friends see this issue. They thought that Americans were tired of the caring for only the rich attitude of Republicans and that is why Americans kicked them to the curb. They don't understand (nor do I) how Democrats have total control of Congress and the White House and insist on working with a bunch of old white guys that are so out of touch with the country.
What we see here, is not an effort at bipartisanship in formulating policy, but total obstruction of any legislation that would benefit millions of Americans. Now part of this confusion comes from the Canadian system of government, parliamentary, which provides for a vote of no confidence in any government, which then forces the formation of a majority government, or disbanding the current regime and calling for new elections. I don't understand all of it yet, but at least we can get rid of leaders who are dishonest or whatever and not have to wait for four years to toss them out on their ears.
I know that the health care issue in America is being thwarted because far too many "Americans" will not accept Obama as president and they do not care what the issue is, because no matter what it is, they want Obama and America to fail. If I were still in the States I would be contacting every Republican and telling them that if they have nothing constructive to add to the debate, then shut the fuck up. Republicans had their chance the last eight years and look where we are now. But rather than work at fixing our health care issue, all they can do is whine and pout and say no.
So they had their chance and now it is time for Democrats to simply steamroll right over them and pass legislation, that has a public option and the teeth to start taming health care costs. Anybody who would argue against affordable health care for ALL AMERICANS is anything but, a real American.
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Oh come on Ann... he's talking about the Palinesque "Real Americans"!
Oh, you mean those Americans who can see Russia from their front porch? Gotcha!
Anybody who would argue against affordable health care for ALL AMERICANS is anything but, a real American.
Bears repeating!
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Oh, you mean those Americans who can see Russia from their front porch? Gotcha!
Bears repeating!
100,000 comedians out of work and look at the jokers we have, isn't it just amazing?
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100,000 comedians out of work and look at the jokers we have, isn't it just amazing?
??? >:( ??? >:( :o >:( ??? >:( ???
edited to add: This is a discussion about an issue that could help 50 million Americans attain affordable health care and the above is all you have to add?
Maybe you should take my advice to the Republicans.
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??? >:( ??? >:( :o >:( ??? >:( ???
edited to add: This is a discussion about an issue that could help 50 million Americans attain affordable health care and the above is all you have to add?
Maybe you should take my advice to the Republicans.
Joe can you point out just one post on any of these threads that has been started that said anything about denying healthcare or fixing the system. Maybe you could explain how it went from Universal Healthcare with a public option policy to "affordable" heathcare. Earlier it was said, "I will not sign any bill without the public option policy" and now they've back tracked on that. As for explaining it to any party they first better explain it to the democrats as well as the rest of America. Like AARP which was said they were on board and then they had to back tract on that because what AARP actually were in favor of was fixing the system they were not endorsing the bill as it was in written.
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Rod, I never said anything other than if you have nothing concrete to add to the discussion... I also never accused you of anything, but your reply, as I see it, is so much a part of this problem. How does rehashing who said what, further health care reform? All I see is a fight of sound bites, when what should be happening is that all of Congress is debating health care reform and I see anything but happening. I am here advocating for change, when all you can tell me is that change won't work. You say you don't oppose fixing our health care system, so what are your ideas for change?
What I lament here is the lack of any reasonable discussion on how to control health care costs. The opposition to reform can do nothing but recite the same old rhetoric on how nothing will work, without offering an alternative. I can't understand how anyone could be against reform and at some point, you either commit to doing something, mistakes and all, as opposed to doing nothing, which is what many in Congress, from both parties are doing and that will not get us anywhere. Big business will once again dictate health care policy in America and I keep waiting for all Americans, including you to be part of the solution, not a part of the problem.
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I keep waiting for all Americans, including you to be part of the solution, not a part of the problem.
Americans don't want a bill that is rushed through that has not been read by the legislators that don't even know what is in the 1000+ page House bill. I guess that it is to much to ask for them to read the bill? Joe how many changes has been made to the bill this month alone? Obama has back tracked on his statements on the public option. At first he wouldn't sigh a bill without it and now he's stating it's insignificant. Which is it?
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Maybe you could explain how it went from Universal Healthcare with a public option policy to "affordable" heathcare.
A monumentally stupid attempt at dealing with a group of people who want things to remain exactly the same yet lie and say they want reform?
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I'm not going to exchange sound bites and yes Congress should read its own bill, but at some point, we have to do something and all the opposition supports is we do nothing. No piece of legislation has ever been written that does not need revisions, so why can't we support a framework approach or any approach?
It's getting to be like trying to teach a pig to fly, it won't work and it annoys the pig.
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Does your incremental change include the fifty million of us that have no health insurance? You're naive to think that even incremental change is possible when one side is intractable in it's efforts to stonewall, which in effect will defeat any meaningful healthcare policy. Obama campaigned on healthcare, and the American people overwhelmingly elected Democrats to get healthcare done this year.
It's not MY incremental change (get snarky with others, but I, for one, don't appreciate your penchant for taking meaning out of context sweetheart) -- I'm being a realist here. While I would love to see us leap from where we are to a Single Payer system, it simply isn't going to happen. If we stand pat to an all or nothing position -- then we guarantee us getting NOTHING.
The incremental change should be meaningful and help to insure those without, but any progress will still be progress.
And I don't think that people elected Democrats (or Obama) simply on healthcare -- I think it was to remove us all from the horror of the previous 8 years. Obama would have won even if he had never mentioned healthcare.
Mike
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Americans don't want a bill that is rushed through that has not been read by the legislators that don't even know what is in the 1000+ page House bill. I guess that it is to much to ask for them to read the bill? Joe how many changes has been made to the bill this month alone? Obama has back tracked on his statements on the public option. At first he wouldn't sigh a bill without it and now he's stating it's insignificant. Which is it?
Rapidrod
I don't know whether you are genuinely uninformed or actively
spreading misinformation, but you have repeatedly
given the impression that the information on the Bill
is not available or that it is too big to read.
Yes, the Bill is 1,017 pages.
But it is printed on one side of the page,
doublespaced
in approximately this size font.
And it is freely available on the web at www.thomas.gov
in a version where you can easily link to each section.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:
There is also a one page summary.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR03200:@@@D&summ2=m&
And it was introduced over a month ago.
Most Congressmen have a full time staffer working on the
issue. If yours is not capable of forming a
reasoned opinion by now, get a new one.
But spare us the argument that it is not available
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lollerz
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So they had their chance and now it is time for Democrats to simply steamroll right over them and pass legislation, that has a public option and the teeth to start taming health care costs. Anybody who would argue against affordable health care for ALL AMERICANS is anything but, a real American.
Here Here all for the steamroll! Enough is enough.
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It's not MY incremental change (get snarky with others, but I, for one, don't appreciate your penchant for taking meaning out of context sweetheart) -- I'm being a realist here. While I would love to see us leap from where we are to a Single Payer system, it simply isn't going to happen. If we stand pat to an all or nothing position -- then we guarantee us getting NOTHING.
The incremental change should be meaningful and help to insure those without, but any progress will still be progress.
And I don't think that people elected Democrats (or Obama) simply on healthcare -- I think it was to remove us all from the horror of the previous 8 years. Obama would have won even if he had never mentioned healthcare.
Mike
Oh poodle, piss on someone else's leg and tell them it's raining, because I could give a rat's patootie. I generally avoid your copy and paste postings like the plague. Sometimes it just can't be helped and I'm forced to snark your tired ass. Anywho, you must write something in context first before it can be taken out of context girlfriend. You're just another mushy, milquetoast, Lieberman-lite democrat defending the status quo. That ain't progress lulabell.
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I guess this can only happen in America. The Democrats, who have campaigned on health care reform, for decades, now have the chance to actually do something and the votes, so what are they waiting for? If this reform fails, it has little to do with Obama and everything to do with the Democrats and their inability to govern. Exactly why do they think they were voted into office? If they don't grow a pair and pass some meaningful legislation, then it might be time to scrap the two party system and try something else.
edited to add:
Mike, please stop getting stuck on words that have little meaning and instead concentrate on the ultimate goal. Whether you want to call it universal or affordable, it's all the same thing. Nobody has ever proposed that we change our system to a single payer, so why mention it. What we have is a uniquely American health care system, with too many vested interests in thwarting any meaningful change. If opponents offered concrete suggestions, rather than just saying no, we might actually develop a good plan. But when one side bargains in bad faith, what other option do you have?
Do you allow them to once again postpone reform, while letting the country go bankrupt from escalating medical costs? If that is what you want, then say so, because without significant reform, that is exactly what is going to happen. Offering the public option would bring the first real competition into a health care market than in over 40 states, is generally controlled by only two insurance companies. Now what kind of competition is that? The free markets of Reaganomics don't work for everything, especially health care and how long will it take until we learn?
If we don't do something now, when will we?
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Canada is looking increasingly like a good alternative to the United States of America modern madness that has followed 8 years of utter Theocracy. Maybe Alberta.
Nothing good will come of this "Congressional Fight" that has literally nothing to do with us the citizens, and everything to do with padding the coffers of the politicians with medical money, to make an attempt next year to destroy the Democrat majority!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In the end, it is all bullshit, and we the HIV/AIDS population of the United States, have no hope whatsoever of living to see a real and caring health care system that WANTS to keep us alive. If the people screaming at these out of control meetings were to be polled, we would come out on the bottom margin, somewhere on the edge of the paper. They simply don't care about the poor, the sick, or those who have no money to pay for insurance.
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Well, I'm going to remove myself from this one because, unfortunately, this thread (and others like it) are an example of why so little progress gets made. Everyone is so wedded to his or her own position that they can not even imagine that the other side (or, god forbid, someone in the middle) has any point that could be valid. And even worse... are those that rather than make any valid points, simply stoop to name calling (hmmm, not unlike the woman who was the original subject of this thread).
So, while I share the same end point goal as most of you (Joe -- believe me, I'm not getting lost in semantics, I simply want to see SOME real progress happen, I'm tired of the status quo), I just see a different path that should be taken given the real world that we live in today.
With that --
Ciao,
Mike
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Nobody said that government was pretty and the only argument I see here are those who are for reform, as opposed to those who are against it, without providing specifics or alternatives. I've heard a lot of good ideas from moderate Republicans, but that never gets mentioned. Instead you have death panels and pulling the plug on grandma. Yes it's a very hot topic, but it's a discussion that has been going on for over 50 years and still we have done nothing. Rather than walking away, this is the time when everyone should be bringing their ideas to the table. Unfortunately, our Congress seems unable to do this and there is more than enough blame to go around. However, placing blame won't get us anywhere, nor will shutting down debate, because all that will happen is nothing.
I am advocating for changes on how we deliver and pay for health care and if I knew the answers I'd share them, but at least I'm willing to listen to others, rather than dismissing them outright, because they have a different opinion. It frustrates me when people can only denigrate a system, even more so, when they don't participate it enacting some type of change.
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LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/healthcare/la-na-healthcare-insurers24-2009aug24,0,6925890.story)
Lashed by liberals and threatened with more government regulation, the insurance industry nevertheless rallied its lobbying and grass-roots resources so successfully in the early stages of the healthcare overhaul deliberations that it is poised to reap a financial windfall.
The half-dozen leading overhaul proposals circulating in Congress would require all citizens to have health insurance, which would guarantee insurers tens of millions of new customers -- many of whom would get government subsidies to help pay the companies' premiums.
"It's a bonanza," said Robert Laszewski, a health insurance executive for 20 years who now tracks reform legislation as president of the consulting firm Health Policy and Strategy Associates Inc.
Some insurance company leaders continue to profess concern about the unpredictable course of President Obama's massive healthcare initiative, and they vigorously oppose elements of his agenda. But Laszewski said the industry's reaction to early negotiations boiled down to a single word: "Hallelujah!"
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But Laszewski said the industry's reaction to early negotiations boiled down to a single word: "Hallelujah!"
Of course that's their reaction, because it looks like the Democrats are weak enough that this will turn into yet another insurance industry giveaway.
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Rapidrod
I don't know whether you are genuinely uninformed or actively
spreading misinformation, but you have repeatedly
given the impression that the information on the Bill
is not available or that it is too big to read.
Yes, the Bill is 1,017 pages.
But it is printed on one side of the page,
doublespaced
in approximately this size font.
And it is freely available on the web at www.thomas.gov
in a version where you can easily link to each section.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:
There is also a one page summary.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR03200:@@@D&summ2=m&
And it was introduced over a month ago.
Most Congressmen have a full time staffer working on the
issue. If yours is not capable of forming a
reasoned opinion by now, get a new one.
But spare us the argument that it is not available
ROFL you just keep believing that.
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Just for shits and giggles I called the office of my congressman, Steve Cohen and asked if he had read H.R. 3200. His chief of staff assured me that he had. I decided to see if the rest of the representatives from the great state of Tennessee had done the same. Took me less than one hour. Out of nine representatives only one would not confirm if they had read H.R. 3200 and that was Marsha Blackburn. All the rest said that they have and actually five asked if I had any particular questions about the bill they could try and answer for me.
Believe it or not it's very easy to contact your representative. They'll answer your email in a sec.
So out of nine representatives contacted, eight confirmed they read H.R 3200
Marsha Blackburn
Steve Cohen
Jim Cooper
Lincoln Davis
John Duncan
Bart Gordon
Paul Roe
John Tanner
Zach Wamp
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Good to know that your representatives have read it and that they are so accessible.
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Out of nine representatives only one would not confirm if they had read H.R. 3200 and that was Marsha Blackburn.
considering that Marsha is one step of crazy away from Michelle Bachman this doesn't surprise me