POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: Dannikum on August 15, 2008, 12:25:32 am
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Hello Everybody.
My exposure and the antecedents that contribute towards it are complicated, so it's my intent to explain my situation as clearly as possible without wasting anyone's time. To the learned forum members who will be answering my questions, please bear with the slightly lengthy history that follows. I merely require insight as to whether there's any rational logic behind my reasoning to believe that I was indeed at risk for HIV in this particular episode or not.
A brief introduction of myself that ties into my risk assessment:
I'm a 28 year old, Uncircumcised, Heterosexual male whose sexual history can be described as scarce. I've only had a total of 4 sexual partners in my entire life. 2 of whom were virgins, hence there's no doubt that they were HIV negative. The 3rd who wasn't a virgin, but recently tested negative for HIV 1&2 nearly 1 year ++ post last exposure, keep in mind that that last exposure was me, and I'm 100% sure I was HIV negative at the time hence she is conclusively HIV negative. The 4th female whom I had a single episode of protected sex with was a CSW. It's my personal opinion that it was a foolish mistake on my part to have indulged in such an act, but thankfully I made sure I used protection, however this is where things become very complicated -- there are a number of factors that tie in with this CSW incident that have led me to believe that I indeed was perhaps at risk despite my efforts to stay safe. These factors are:
(a) The exposure took place in South East Asia, to be specific Malaysia, at a massage spa located inside somewhat a reputable hotel. Due to my worrying, I went back to this parlor after nearly 2 months post exposure, and to my dismay upon further inquiry from the management, the manager told me reluctantly that they get the girls checked only ONCE A YEAR. This seems rather unacceptable to me as a client, since once a year isn't really an adequate measure towards maintaining health standards in an institution such as this where the CSWs have ample exposure to bodily fluids on a daily basis. The manager's reluctance & his obvious lack of awareness in his tone and body language leads me to believe that he COULD be even lying about the yearly examinations. This was extremely disconcerting.
So Fact1: Inadequate Testing at this massage parlor leads me to believe that there is indeed a higher likelihood of HIV being present in these sex workers inclusive of the one whom I had an episode with.
(b) The good thing I noticed however was that the CSW I had protected sex with brought along a condom with her, showing me that they are atleast slightly aware. Another thing I noticed was how before protected oral/vaginal sex, she insisted on taking a shower herself, and upon me having one as well -- so cleanliness was present as well, showing me somewhat that they aren't completely ignorant. I purchased my own condoms before visiting this place, they were Durex Extra Safe -- apparently slightly thicker & extra lubricated. What's bothering me is how Durex condoms here in Malaysia are all produced in Thailand and are imported to Singapore & Malaysia. I'm inclined to believe that quality standards in this region in terms of condom testing & production aren't as stringent as they should be, in fact I have even spoken to people firsthand claiming that their experiences in Thailand & SE Asia have led them to observe that condom's here fail much easier as opposed to the ones sold in industrialized settings. Nonetheless, I purchased these condoms at a reputable pharmacy here in Malaysia.
So Fact2: Inability to ensure the quality of Durex Condoms in Malaysia has led me to articulate that I possibly may not have been AS protected AS required to be at NO risk for HIV
(c) Another facet falling under the use of condoms during this specific incident was that to my knowledge, NO lubrication was used, however I can't be sure. Either way I feel that this quantifies a small risk. Allow me to explain. If infact NO lubrication was used, I understand that this was a risk since it increases the chances of condom rupture/bursts, however in my defense these extra safe condoms are prepackaged lubricated, in turn allowing me to assume that additional lubricant wasn't needed. Now on the other side of the coin, there's a little bit more risk since if the CSW did INDEED use lubricant at a point in time that escaped my observation, I have no reliable way of knowing if it was waterbased lubricant and not some other makeshift substance like baby oil, aromatherapy oil, etc -- all of which are oil-based compounds proven to break down latex & considerably increase chances of condom failure.
So Fact3: No appreciable recollection of lubrication, thus if in the case an oil based substance was used, it increased my chances of a failed condom
(d) I did NOT inspect the condom after the vaginal sex. I merely observed that it looked fine, and still in its general shape. However what I do recall as worrisome was how the tip of condom looked like it was slightly loose/stretched on my penis head, and was slightly flaccid/hanging down. The rest of the condom looked fitted on my shaft. Now I understand that when condoms do truly fail, they rip wide open exposing the penis, however in my case since the condom was perhaps slightly larger in size compared to my penis, perhaps it’s flaccid/ hanging state after sex was signifying failure as opposed to it being ripped wide open.
So Fact4: No way of ensuring if my condom did indeed stay intact or failed. Common sense dictates that it didn’t since it looked normal after sex, however since I never checked it myself, there’s no way of knowing for sure. If they were slightly thicker & lubricated, I assume a failure would be even more unlikely in this situation though.
(e) My 3rd sexual partner whom as aforementioned tested negative for HIV1&2, but did NOT do an STD panel. I have reason to suspect that she may have untreated Chlamydia for the last 5-7 years, and passed it onto me during our times together in the past. If this were indeed the case, then me having an untreated STD like non-symptomatic Chlamydia for the last year and a half would mean I am at higher risk of contracting HIV. Combine this with the fact that I’m uncircumcised – my risk of contracting HIV is 1 in 200 if we’re being optimistic. This is in correlation with the general statistics that are 1 in 2000 for a single act of unprotected sex with a confirmed HIV positive individual.
So Fact5: I am at a higher risk of HIV contraction due to a possibility of untreated Chlamydia & being uncircumcised. Hence in the case that my condom did indeed fail without my knowledge, I have an extremely HIGH chance of being infected assuming the CSW was positive. It has been stated here in Malaysia, that within a population of 20,000000, 500+ HIV positive individuals are prostitutes.
The above 5 factors definitely tie into my exposure, thus I apologize for the tedious explanation however it was necessary for me to elucidate since I want to receive rational feedback on these concerns. Btw this exposure took place nearly 84 days ago. My questions are:
(1) Are the factors (a) to (e) elucidated above a pattern of rational thinking on my part, or is this merely me over thinking things binded with anxiety?
(2) From my above description of the incident with the CSW and my history, am I at risk for HIV whatsoever?
(3) If indeed I do have untreated Chlamydia, is it possible to be having no symptoms whatsoever for the last year and a half? According to another forum member on another forum, it’s highly unlikely for you to have untreated STDs for a year without any symptomatic occurrences.
(4) Let’s say that I never have sex with a CSW again, can I put this entire incident behind me, and move on with my life without any HIV testing whatsoever?
I’m extremely thankful for anyone who takes the time to read the above, and answers accordingly. I’ve been irked by this incident for the last few months now, but I feel a disconnect coming on in my mind due to worry. My general health is fine, however I have been feeling an assortment of minor symptoms that *could* be attributed to primary HIV infection right after sero-conversion: Burning sensations in my extremities sporadically, White tongue with enlarged pimple like structures towards the back of it, Aching of joints from time to time, an amount of malaise, and a prolonged irritation of nasal congestion and phlegm at the back of my throat, dryness of skin on the inside of my palms & fingers. I desperately seek your counsel, thank you so very much.
Kind Regards, Danny.
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You had protected sex, you were never at risk of contracting HIV.
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Thank you Mr. RapidRod, however if it's not too much of an inconvenience, could you address my concerns in brief yet more elaborate detail?
And I welcome the other moderators here to kindly shed some insight on my situation as well...
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Dan,
Your attitude toward people in other countries makes me shudder.
Another thing I noticed was how before protected oral/vaginal sex, she insisted on taking a shower herself, and upon me having one as well -- so cleanliness was present as well, showing me somewhat that they aren't completely ignorant.
I'm sure they'd be relieved over your assessment of their intelligence. ::) Don't bother trying to wriggle out of it either, it's perfectly obvious what you mean.
You didn't have a risk with the sex worker. All your endless details aside, that's the bottom line. I don't have a half hour extra in my life to address your concerns in the detail you demand. Protected intercourse is just that, protected and there's nothing special about your encounter.
By the way, you can't rely on how a person looks or what you think you know about someone's history. For all you knew, one of those virgins of yours could have been infected in the womb or via a blood transfusion. Stop discrimiinating - hiv doesn't.
You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.
Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.
ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST OVER THE SEX WORKER INCIDENT, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.
If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.
Ann
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Ann,
Firstly, allow me to extend my thanks to you for having taken the time to assess my risk, and answer accordingly. In regards to my earlier statement about "their" ignorance -- "Wiggling" isn't something I'd do regardless of what you or others on this forum may presume. However, let me assure you that I meant nothing even close to a racial insinuation against Malaysian CSWs in those perhaps brashly worded statements.
What I merely insinuate is that in 2008, it irks me that there are practicing CSW's here in Malaysia that are only tested once a year. This IS NOT anything against them from a racial perspective, it is like I said a matter of ignorance on their part as well as several others who remain in the shadows. I'd bet my entire savings that in places not even so far from here like Singapore or Australia, the women are tested MUCH MORE REGULARLY. The fact that these girls are willing to subject themselves to such loosely coupled testing standards even when they find themselves in a trade where risks are considerable on a daily basis is truly a sign of ignorance in my opinion. It in turn reflects the lack of commitment that the powers-to-be here perpetuate day in & day out as there are, I'm sure many other operations here which are NOT being routinely standardized in terms of health & hygiene.
Heterosexual HIV transmission here in Malaysia has witnessed somewhat exponential growth in the last 10 years ago, why? Because relevant authorities & the average citizen are simply unaware of basic standards of safe sex. If a place far less developed infrastructure wise like Thailand could do it, then why can't one of the most prominent destinations in SE Asia follow en suite? The fact that she insisted upon a shower herself merely provided me with a clearer picture of the professionalism that this particular massage spa adheres to. This was my first, and definitely the last encounter I had with a CSW, I don't plan to place myself in that situation ever again, regardless of which country I may find myself in.
Btw Ann, I don't see a correlation between someone's insistence upon showering and likelihood of them having HIV or not. I hope that my statement didn't make it seem as if I did. I'm fully aware that HIV doesn't discriminate. Thank you though for the wonderful insight you've provided me with, I will make sure I check out the condom artifacts attached to your name. I'm dead serious though about the lack of HIV education here, you might be surprised yourself if you were to come here and bask in the scenes firsthand.
A few follow up questions though:
(1) Is it really possible that the virgins I had sex with could've been HIV positive through blood transfusion or by birth? I mean is that really a quantifiable risk here, in my case?
(2) How can you and rapidrod be sure that my condom did NOT fail during this CSW incident according to what I've described?
(3) All these symptoms that are present now, can these all be simply due to anxiety? I've been itching all over as well.
(4) Is it possible to have Chlamydia for the last 1.5 years without it causing any symptoms in Males?
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Dan,
Guess what? It doesn't matter how often your sexual partner tests for hiv, as long as YOU are wearing a condom. Your rant about testing practices of sex workers is largely irrelevant in the context of your risk assessment.
I don't see a correlation between someone's insistence upon showering and likelihood of them having HIV or not.
Neither do I. I'm hiv positive and I shower every day. Sometimes twice a day!
1. Of course it's a possibility. It's also quite possible that they weren't virgins. The bottom line here is that you need to use condoms until such time as you're in a securely monogamous relationship where you have BOTH TESTED NEGATIVE together for ALL sexually transmitted infections, not just hiv.
2. If your condom failed, it would have been very noticeable and you would have mentioned it. A broken condom is very obvious - similar to wearing a hula skirt around your penis.
3. Your symptoms could be anything. See your doctor. However, as you have not had a risk for hiv infection, hiv is not going to be what's causing your troubles.
4. Yes, it is totally possible to have chlamydia for years with no symptoms.
Perhaps you should apply the rigorous testing requirements to yourself that you apply to sex workers. ANY sexually active adult should have a full STI screening at least once a year.
Ann
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So Ann, all in all, you reckon I DO indeed require Sexual health screening at this point in time?
And let's just say that I am 100% without doubt sure that those girls were virgins, should I specifically get tested on the basis that these girls may have been infected through transfusion or at birth?
Also, I wanted to ask you about something in context to the testing standards they're using here in Malaysia for HIV screening. It's a HIV Combo Ab/Ag test by ABBOTT labs known as ARCHITECT , apparently it's extremely sensitive, however I'm not too sure if it's been FDA approved, I have strong reason to suspect it isn't in the United States. The 3rd female who recently got tested 1 yr post exposure was subjected to this test. How reliable is her Negative considering the aforementioned though, any idea?
Thank you once again,
Danny.
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Dan,
As a sexually active adult, you need yearly screening at least. If it's been less than a year since your last COMPLETE STI screen, then no, you don't currently need screening. If it's been a year or more since your last complete screen, then yes, you should go be tested for everything.
Nevermind the virgins. It doesn't matter who you're sexually active with, you should be screened yearly for ALL STIs. Not just hiv.
Abbot's ARCHITECT is not yet FDA approved. However, it is used in many non-US countries and has a very good track record. As long as she tested at the appropriate time (three months or more past exposure) she is hiv negative.
HOWEVER, you cannot go by a partner's test results to determine your own hiv status. You MUST be tested yourself. You need to concentrate less on your partners' testing history or behaviour and more on your own. You are responsible for your own sexual health and they are responsible for theirs.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.
Ann
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Ann, you've been a great help. I can't even begin to describe how much I appreciate you taking the time to explain things so clearly. I think it's time for me to get screened then :D
I'm glad to hear about the ARCHITECT's established track record, what a relief. I feel a disconnect attributed to anxiety coming on though. Can I put this episode with the CSW out of my mind completely though? I mean is there even the tiniest possibility I could've been exposed to HIV during this incident? I keep "What If-ing" about condom failure & quality.
Would the fact that I've been on Antibiotics like Zithromax on & off due to coughs & colds in the last year or so change your opinion in terms of my having Chlamydia. It's to my understanding, that a full course of Zithromax would've eliminated any chlamydia if present, is this accurate?
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Dan,
Do you worry about the tiny, tiny possibility that a meteorite might fall on your head the next time you step outside? Condoms have been proven to prevent hiv infection, no matter who your sexual partner might be. There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.
I myself was in a serodiscordant relationship for over eight years. We used condoms for intercourse, but nothing else, and he remained hiv negative. Condoms do work.
Go get your over-due screening done. From all you've reported, I fully expect your hiv test to return with negative results. Don't forget to have a FULL screen, so you can find out whether or not you're worrying unnecessarily or not about chlamydia.
Ann
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Dan,
Let me reinforce what Ann said:
I was also in serodiscordant relationship (for over 13 years).
We used condoms for intercourse.
That's all.
He remains negative.
Condoms work.
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Thank you Atlq, Ann.
Since you guys have both been in serodiscordant relationships, have either of had a condom break on you?
If yes, did you indeed notice it to be like a hula hoop at the base of the penis?
It's just that I see all the regulars here and on a few other forums tell people that condom failures are so evident that they're visible to the eye, however I've personally heard 2 friends of mine claim that their condom failure was extremely subtle, and that only upon inspection ( the ole water fill up test) did they notice that there was a slight tear in them?
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Dan,
It never seems to occur to these water test guys that they probably broke the condom while fooling around, putting water into it. I always thought using condoms for water balloons was something eight-year-olds did. ~sigh~
I've never had one break on me personally, because I know how to use them correctly and a correctly used condom rarely breaks. However, I've talked to enough people who HAVE had them break and yes, it's always obvious.
You really, really need to chill out.
Ann
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We never had one break (those little buggers are tough) either. Sorry but my experience is that, properly used, condom failure just doesn't occur that often....
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Ann, Atlq,
I reckon at this point, I may need therapy for the sort of anxiety I'm finding myself steeped within bit by bit.
I went through all your condom artifacts Ann, thank you for that. I just wanted to ask you though, that if in the case the condoms I used (Durex Extra Safe) were already prepackaged extra lubricated to begin with, would I have needed additional lube? Also have you guys ever heard of Durex's Extra Safe?
I was just curious, and I hope you're not going to get angry at me for asking this somewhat unrelated question; but I recently read an article about how a technique known as Gene Silencing could be used to eliminate or substantially hinder a HIV positive individual's transition to AIDS, could this be new hope for a possible cure in foreseeable years to come?
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Dan,
When using pre-lubed condoms for vaginal intercourse, you really only need to use extra lube if the woman isn't producing any of her own. In other words, if she's dry.
You've really got no worries with the "extra-safe" condoms where vaginal is concerned. They're produced with the more rough-and-tumble anal intercourse in mind and are unlikely to break during vaginal. In fact, they're unlikely to break during anal either. That's why they're "extra-safe".
And yes, perhaps counseling is a good idea.
As for your cure question, we don't deal with those sorts of questions in this forum. Sorry.
Ann
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Ann,
I don't mean to pester, but there's some disconcerting news here in Malaysia in regards to protected sex. According to a very prominent HIV specialist within this region whose main base of practice is in Singapore -- 2 cases of HIV infection here in Malaysia have been confirmed despite the effective use of condoms. One of those cases was a male's single exposure to a sex worker. According to his statements he used a condom from beginning to end with no failure, however upon testing 7 weeks later due to massive amounts of anxiety, to his dismay tested positive.
Yes I know it is indeed a possibility that he could be lying that he was exposed during this incident. However the HIV specialist went onto say that protected sex isn't always protected especially if your partners are high risk groups like CSWs, Drug Users, Bisexuals, etc. This boy who tested positive is only 19 years old, and according to him this was his only exposure with a CSW, and the only other episodes in his life were with a 17 year old virgin.
Do you reckon all this is fabricated? I mean, is it actually possible this boy may have been infected despite the use of protection?
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Ann,
There's something irking me in regards to this encounter I had with the CSW. I don't know if it's my rationality trying to tell me that there's something actually wrong here or if it's my anxiety throttling my brains out.
For about a few weeks after the incident I was 100% sure that my condom didn't break during this episode since I remember looking at it after vaginal sex and it looked nothing like a hula skirt, however the more I tried to recollect what happened that day, the more and more I started to feel as if I may have missed it's failure. It's strange but for several weeks after this episode I went from being absolutely confident of it being intact to suspecting that I may have heard a 'popping' noise during sex with this CSW and paid no attention to it. I don't know if this was a subconscious memory that had been uprooted all of a sudden, or if it's my anxiety overplaying my imagination. I'm sure however about the fact that I looked at the condom after vaginal sex and recall seeing it in it's general shape (maybe slightly stretched at the tip, but definitely NOTHING like a hula hoop around my penis)...
I'm slightly confused now though ann, is there any way possible I could've missed the condom failure? I don't take alcohol so I was 100% sober but very nervous as this was my first time with a CSW...Would it be possible that that my condom DID infact fail and I didn't notice it cause of my nervousness? I can't tell what's what now...and that's gotten me slightly worried...
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There is no possible way that you would have missed a condom failure.
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I keep telling myself the same thing RapidRod, but I just can't seem to shake this feeling off. I've begin to suspect that something did happen, but I don't know if these notions are all founded on anxiety or if they really are things that occurred.
Have you ever seen anyone else being confident that their condom DIDN'T fail till a point in time, and then as time passes, they start to whimsically recollect a "bursting" sound, and what not?
Is this my mind playing tricks on me?
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All the time. Just read the forum. Don't mix drinking and sex and you won't have that problem.
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Umm Mr. Rod, I dont take alcohol as aforementioned in my previous post....
I've never consumed any my entire life.
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Dan,
I just can't seem to shake this feeling off.
Feelings aren't facts.
According to his statements he used a condom from beginning to end with no failure
And patient report is notoriously unreliable. People don't like to admit to everything they get up to sexually, especially when you throw a positive hiv result into the mix.
You didn't have a risk. If you don't believe us, go test and collect your negative result. However, you will NOT be permitted to use this forum to go on and on and on about your no-risk situation. If you've read the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
Please consider yourself warned.
Ann
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Dan,
By the way... let's suppose the condom did break. I'm still confident you'll test hiv negative. Why? Because in all the time I've been doing this work (seven years) I've never, ever seen the insertive partner end up hiv positive following a condom break.
Hiv is significantly more difficult to transmit from a woman to a man and with a condom break, you were protected for at least part of the time. If your condom didn't break in an obvious way, then the head of your penis would still have been covered. If it wasn't, it would have been obvious when you withdrew because your one-eye would have been looking at you without the impediment of latex in the way. As long as the head of your penis was covered, you were protected. You don't get infected through the shaft, you get infected through the head.
Get off the internet, go have your over-due routine screening done, collect your negative hiv results and get on with your life. Your warning still stands, by the way. ;)
Ann
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Ann,
I respect the rules of this forum, and fully understand how my repetitive posting may at the very least annoy some of the administrators, as well as coming across seemingly selfish to folks who may have been subjected to actual risk and so consequently require more attention. In light of that Ann, I will make good on your advice to stay off this forum as well as the internet for the time being till I collect my conclusively negative results. I would like to reiterate my many thanks to you & others on here who've taken the time to merely put up with my rants, and in the process provide me with a great deal of insight and re-assurance. God Bless y'all.
Before I leave however, I must confess that I have a yearning to ask just one more question, and you're not going to like it :) I did something that was to say the least NONE of my business -- not to mention frowned upon here at AIDSmeds. In the throws of anxiety last night, I went slightly neurotic online and found myself stumbling upon several threads within the "I just tested Poz" & "Living with HIV" forum here at AIDSmeds, which to be honest is EXACTLY why this moment wherein I ask the following is culminate. I can't help but ask WHY if these categorically low to zero risk activities are so inefficient in the transmission of HIV, then WHY are there so many disparate accounts of people on here who haven't a clue as to how they contracted HIV despite all the safety precautions they took?.
I know it's taboo to bring this up here, but I really was dumbfounded by the number of threads here by people who had one off protected exposures, or merely oral sex, or merely "scratches on the back with cum rubbed over them" eventually ending up testing positive. I'm not questioning anyone's authority here, neither the credibility of the information being given out to ordinary folks like me, I 100% percent believe what Ann and some of the others have told me in regards to my risk assessment, but I can't help being human and finding myself irked at these handful of people on "Just tested Poz" forum who time and time again in their posts describe zero-low risk activities to be their mode of contraction. One may say that fabrication is the main underlying cause here, however not all of these people who claim the latter are lying, NOT EVERY SINGLE one would be lying, right?. Before leaving, I would like to hear from some of the erudite administrator's take on as to how these things end up being called "No risk" activities when there are people who have indeed been infected after the use of an intact condom, people who test positive after merely receiving/giving oral sex, etc?
Regards,
Dan.
P.S. Please do not shrug this question of with a "Move On" or a "Time out". If you can't or won't answer this, then merely be honest enough to admit that instead of doing what I've seen happen to so many others on here who have asked very similar questions, and unfortunately end up being tauted and threatened.
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Read the "Welcome" thread and pay close attention to the posting guide lines.
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Dan,
Not only are people sometimes less than honest in their assessment of how they became positive, but quite often people simply do not remember due to drug and/or alcohol use.
I'm giving you that time out I warned you about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out or you will be permanently banned.
Ann
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Hi Ann,
Long time no see ;) Granted that 28 day time-out you slapped onto me :-P
Just wanted to tell you that I've been seeing someone for my anxieties; specifically focusing upon the irrationalities that have been culminate within me for a long time coming I presume, looking back in hindsight of course. To be honest I had been hoping that with all these hours in therapy under my belt I would be able to:
(a) Grow myself a pair, and get tested for HIV & STI's. That hasn't happened due to a multitude of irrational fears still lingering on within my head. I reckon somehow, deep down inside, I have this odd surety that when I test, i'll test positive regardless of having used a condom with that female sex worker back in May? Why, I have no idea.
(b) I seem to have developed another range of insecurities, or shall I say "inabilities" in this entire process -- I can't seem to have sex anymore ??? No seriously, the thought of sex with any female, even with protection, scares the crap out of me and somehow physiologically disallows me from "rising" to the occasion, you dig?. If therapy doesn't cut it, what's the next step Ann?
(c) I can't seem to come to terms with the fact that I put myself at "theoretical" risk. It seems I've developed a mental block somewhere within my cerebral cortex that's permanently rooted itself now within me, regardless of therapy, reassurances, etc. After another month of pondering upon this situation, I've come to the conclusion that I have no actual proof in terms of memory that my condom remained intact. Yes it was extra lubed to begin with, yes it was thicker, but I have a sixth sense that it still broke somehow without me detecting it.
I find myself in a catch 22 Ann! :'( and all I've got to show for it is a measly month of non-affective therapy that's somehow aggravated my irrationalities instead of disintegrate them.
Regards,
Dan.
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Then I recommend you give it more than a "measly month". Your mental health issues are not our problem, to put it bluntly. They just aren't. We provide risk assessment based on given scenarios - and you have already been provided that and then some.
Learning to "grow a pair" is something only you can do. That is not a sevice provided here.
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Dan, the issues you are talking about don't happen nor do they get healed quickly. Dealing with them effectively means that you will likely have to tolerate some uncomfortable feelings during the process.
It means caring enough about yourself to do some hard work with a view to making your life better. We cannot do that work with or for you here. We do know that your problem is not HIV. And that is what this site is about: HIV.
I urge you to continue to work on your difficulties in the proper treatment setting.
Good luck and keep going.
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Thunter, Andy -- Make no mistake, I will continue onwards with this mental health professional.
I get you guys loud and clear in regards to this forum's sole directive. I was wondering if you guys could shed some insight as to what my options are if say even 2-3 months more down the line I still suffer from these irrationalities, indeed regardless of my therapeutic escapades?
"My options" as in reference to my inabilities to accept HIV "theoretical" transmission risks.
My therapist tells me that the main issue in mind is my inability to accept that a person is only a latex barrier away from being infected every time he/she has sex. I seem to run that entire episode of sex with the CSW over and over again in my mind, trying to ascertain the implications of a broken condom equalizing to an "infected" me.
Do you guys recommend anything else asides from therapy for people like me? Your insights in this matter would really be appreciated.
Regards,
Dan.
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Dan-
Your "options" after two or three months of therapy are to continue. We are none of us mental health professionals, so none of us really can assist you further.
If you really are that concerned that you've been carrying around an STI for all this time and still haven't the testicular fortitude to test and confirm your suspicions one way or the other, there really is nothing we can help you see.
Good luck with the therapist.
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Thanks guys :D
I guess there's no running from it anymore. Somehow I've got to drag myself over to the testing center and be done with it regardless of my inabilities to deal with this...
But hey! at least I know where to turn once I know i'm positive for sure. I just hope to God that i'll be able to deal with this once it's confirmed. I'll catch up with y'all soon.
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Dan,
If you do test positive, it won't be as a result of your protected intercourse.
Continue to post over this no risk incident and you'll be timed out again - for 56 days this time.
Please consider yourself warned.
Ann
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Ann, I was just timed out a month ago?
In the 7+ years you've been doing this, have you ever seen an insertive partner test positive despite proper use of a condom (no breakage)?
Let's say a sex worker gets infected and remains so untreated for a bit, like say half a yr or so; meanwhile her viral load skyrockets and she's highly infectious for an interval of time whilst being sexually active with clients; granted I'm still wearing a condom but wouldn't the my risk of being infected be more prominent taking into account her untreated HIV infection?
Is it logical to assume that a really high VL would equate to higher concentrations of HIV in her genital fluids thus making it possible for HIV to successfully pass through even, say intact latex? I'm really worried that I've somehow managed to contract HIV with the CSW. I'm 100% sure that all the other risks I had taken with ex-gals are moot now cause they've both been recently verified HIV negative, this sex worker is the only thing standing between me and getting on with life.......(jeez, talk about dramatic ::))
Truth is Ann, is that I'm burning through a lot of cash for therapy currently and have been contemplating discontinuation merely on the basis of financial constraints. I'm sort of hoping that a little bit more of these re-assuring insights coming from learned people like yourselves will snap my head back into a stupor of sensibility once more, and allow me to function without all these trips to the shrink.
Thanks :)
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Dan,
A correctly used condom will protect the negative partner no matter what the viral load of the positive partner. No, I've never seen an insertive partner end up positive when condoms are used correctly and consistently.
And yes, you were timed out a month ago. Now here you are back again with the same types of questions. Re-read your entire thread before posting again. It's alll been spelled out for you already. Keep coming back with more of the same and you WILL be given a time out again.
Ann
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Ann,
Don't worry, i'm not here again asking about my CSW risk :)
I was wondering if you could kindly shed some insight on false negatives past a 3, 6, or 12 month timeline?
I know you've described this as "unheard" of in some of your posts, however in the extremely rare instances they do occur, why so?
Is there any basis in HIV science for someone who's actually positive to test negative up to even a year or so after an exposure?
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Dan, by asking these speculative questions which have nothing to do with your situation, you're just trying to do an end run around the basics of what you have been told previously.
We're not going to buy into this.
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Dear Andy,
I really do want to know if there's any basis within HIV science for false negatives past a 3, or 6, or even a 12 month time line? What health conditions could possibly trigger these sort of results, if any at all?
This query does have to do with me Andy, as my last HIV test was back in 2007 October. I got tested alongside another ex-gf of mine. We both were negative. I'm asking this because I know for a fact neither me or her are IV drug users, undergoing chemo, or recently a recipient of an organ. In this situation, would be there any possibility of a false negative outside 3 month window? If yes, regardless of how unheard of those rare instances may be, could you elucidate upon the health condition(s) that could cause this?
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Dear Andy,
I really do want to know if there's any basis within HIV science for false negatives past a 3, or 6, or even a 12 month time line?
Then go read a dang book. We are NOT here to be your personal HIV tutors - we provide risk assessments based on specific scenarios, and we have given you that and then some. As Andy said, we are not buying into this. But go right ahead...dance yourself right back into a time out.
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Dan,
The vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six WEEKS. The window period exists at three months as insurance to catch the rare person who takes slightly longer. The only people who might take longer than three months are those on chemo for cancer, anti-rejection drugs following organ transplant or injecting street drugs, daily, for years. Even in these cases, most will test positive by three months.
And that's it. That's your final answer over this situation. You are conclusively hiv negative. Come back with more and you will deifinitely be given another time out. Don't even bother to answer this post to say thank you. Your quiet acceptance of your negative result will be thanks enough.
Ann
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Guys, I've done something incredibly stupid. Allow me to elucidate.
I actually took everyone's advice on here to heart and attempted to really to put this irrational fear of HIV out of my mind, and I reckon within the last few days in the process of trying, it's worked a little too well, so much so I've come back here with a new risk assessment. I can't believe that no matter what I try to do it's back to square one for me.
My therapist claims I have managed to make some progress this last week, and consequently I even took a stroll over to the HIV/STD counselor's clinic. Let's just say a lot of the proclaimed experts have not taken the time to read those long-term serodiscordant studies that boast condom efficacy given the right circumstances. When I questioned him in context to this, the counselor stated that those studies have long been in question in regards to credibility as interim statistical progress was suspicious in terms of the numbers quoted -- there were discrepancies found within data collection due to (according to him) conflicted findings especially amongst the heterosexual control; going on to state that a number of experts today discredit that specific longitudinal study merely based on this issue. He also stated that there were just too few studies out there & too many discrepancies within their findings to allow someone in the real world to bank upon a piece of latex as protection solely, especially in circumstances where one has a frequency of casual sex encounters.
So as you can imagine this conversation sent me back to the drawing board alright!, but surprisingly I managed to hold steadfast on the advice you've all given me time and time again whilst my moments of panic and console myself with the fact that the CSW incident wasn't a risk, regardless of what some counselor has to say!
But now I met up with a friend and we spent the day together today. Things got out of hand, and I reckon I was stupid to have been so vulnerable. Ended up having oral/vaginal sex with her. I somehow mentally wanted to prove to myself that I'm not a freak for having fears of HIV despite safe sex practices by being with her. But before I could stop her, she started giving me a blow-job without a condom, and she continued to do so for a considerable time and quite frankly I enjoyed it so I didn't have enough will power to stop it. Thing is guys, is that I'm uncircumcised! I've been told that uncircumcised men are at elevated risks of contracting HIV due to the presence of dendrite cells within the foreskin lining, and this female friend of mine, well she's a nurse by profession, is 2.5 months pregnant, seems slightly shady as far as being straightforward as to when she last tested. I'm starting to panic now, receptive oral sex is a risk according to the CDC, why so? I used extra-safe Durex condoms for the vaginal so I guess there isn't a risk there. Also if by some odd coincidence whilst orally stimulating her breasts, if there was any milk, could that have been a risk to me if I swallowed some?
Am I playing with fire here guys? Why can't I just assume that I won't get HIV if I use a condom, regardless of whomever it is! Why do I have to keep worrying about every single risk I take!
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Dan,
You didn't HAVE receptive oral sex. You had INSERTIVE. You got a blowjob, that means you INSERTED your penis into her mouth. Getting a blowjob is NOT a risk for hiv infection.
Don't even think about using this forum to go on an on about this no-risk incident. You'll be timed out quicker than you can say blowjob.
Ann
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Ann,
Just a few quick follow up questions in light of an exposure I had 20 minutes ago. I went to this massage place today. I just wanted to know:
(a) As you and others have repetitively said on this forum that Insertive Oral Sex is NOT a risk. In light of me being a fairly well endowed male who is uncircumcised, does this in anyway change my levels of risk whilst receiving a slightly rough blowjob? Logically wouldn't it be feasible to be infected if the girl who gave me a blowjob was indeed positive and my foreskin was in direct contact with her tongue n all? Research has proven that foreskin is an exceptionally receptive environment for HIV to infect. Infact some reports have even stated that subtype E which is prevalent amongst South east Asians, has heightened abilities to infect via foreskin?
(b) What are the probabilities of contracting HIV through a body-to-body massage whereby she uses her tits to massage my front & back? There was some oil used, however I only ask this question cause I have pretty irritated skin on my chest/back where the occasional break-outs occur. I understand skin is an excellent barrier but wouldn't my irritated and perhaps broken skin allow foreign particles to enter my body, inclusive of HIV whilst she was rubbing up against me (quite rough)?
(c) The serodiscordant studies you often quote Ann, just curious? but how long an interval were these serodiscordant couples under scrutiny in light of this study? A few years? A few months? Why doesn't the CDC acknowledge these reports and re-evaluate the risk factors? as opposed to stating that even the likes of oral sex & protected intercourse are categorically low-medium risk?
(d) As observed, you guys have often stated that no male has ever been documented to have contracted HIV through insertive oral sex, but how exactly have you come to this conclusion rationally? I mean, No offence to you guys as you are all experts, but you obviously can't keep track of every single person's case, as he/she gets infected? There may people in Thailand or some place else outside of the States that've indeed contracted HIV through a oral sex, but obviously won't ever be documented, correct?
(e) What are the potential STI's that I could acquire from an unprotected blowjob Ann?
Hope you're not pissed at me for asking these questions, as I've tried doing some of my own research but there are a lot of papers that theoretically claim that individuals have contracted HIV via broken skin in a medical care setting. Thanks :)
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Dan,
Once again, you come to us with no risk situations. Being an uncut "big boy" getting blown in Thailand doesn't change the fact that saliva is not infectious.
Getting a massage is not a risk. You should know this stuff by now.
One of the serodiscordant studies went on for over ten years. The other two were three or more.
I'm giving you that 56 day time out I warned you about. We're not here to hold your hand everytime you have a sexual experience. We've done all we can to educate you, now it's up to you to implement what you've learned.
Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.
Ann
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Guys I'm back with a quick query -- hope everyone is doing well..
I've always been the sort that takes my own durex set of condoms along with me when I'm with doing a one night stand or a paid session with a working lady -- its so happened as of late I've not had my own condoms on me, and the working ladies on 3 or 4 of the encounters provided me with an unbranded condom that I know is made in china - it was obviously latex and did not break throughout the course of intercourse -- but is it possible that I may have had risk of HIV due to the question mark of quality on these unbranded china made condoms?
Am I worrying for nothing? Or is possible that if these condoms don't have the same amount of rigorous testing in terms of quality -- the latex used could be useless in preventing HIV from coming through?
And does the fact that I filled the condom with water after wards and noticed it still ballooned prove in anywhich way that it was HIV effective?
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Dan,
The condoms didn't break, therefore you had no risk.
Ann
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Thank you Ann -- but what I was curious to understand is that is it safe to assume that any condom, despite reputably branded or not, as long as its latex would successful in prevent HIV infection?
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Dan,
Any latex or polyurethane condom, provided it does not break, will protect you against hiv infection. When a condom breaks, it is really obvious.
Although you're better off buying and using condoms that are a reputable brand, it's not strictly necessary. You really should get your own supply again, for your own peace of mind if nothing else.
Ann
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Ann, I think I might have exposed myself unintentionally. I'm a little concerned and like to hear you opinion on a new development -- today I went over to a massage parlor and had a phillipino gal come in to massage me. Now after the massage she started giving me a sensual oil massage with her own body -- naked.
Now this is where im very confused....she got me to lie down face up, and she got on top of me and closed her legs up tight around my penis, but it was such that my bare penis was making contact with her vagina -- she started moving up and down and was attempting to stimulate the sensation of sex without actually having it, BUT I could've sworn there were a few times it felt like I was really inside her but when I checked I felt my penis head out in the open -- do you know what I mean?
When I asked her about whether or not she was sure it was out all the time, she very vehemently said "ofcourse!" and that it didnt go inside...but I dont know for sure really...so hypothetically lets say for a good 10-15 mins my penis's length was rubbing the front of her vagina rigorously -- im sure her fluids may have gotten on my penis and its head as well right?
Does this constitute a risk? And also would I have been able to tell the difference between this pseudo-sex and the real thing if I had gotten into her?
Thanks again.
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No, what you have described does not constitute a risk. It's call frottage or rubbing. And there is a world of difference (and safety) in that from actual intercourse. The fluids from the vagina which you may have felt in the rubbing are not a risk for HIV transmission.
The vaginal fluids which can contain HIV if the woman is HIV+ are far up in the vaginal cavity in the cervical area. In this incident your penis was nowhere near there.
As Ann has said, you are worrying needlessly. Just keep using condoms everytime for vaginal/anal intercourse and you will be well protected.
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Hello :)
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Sorry about the earlier hello -- hit the send button a little too soon -- oops.
I just wanted run by a quick question; Would you consider going down on a woman as credible risk being tested over? I've had countless encounters where I've gone down momentarily and well I just thought I'd ask if its something I should worry about in terms of transmission?.
Thanks.
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Dan,
I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.
If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.
Please also read through the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.
Going down on a woman is not a risk for hiv infection.
Ann
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Thanks Ann - Are there any extenuating circumstances in which cunningilus would be a potential risk?
Theoritically wouldnt exposure to cervical fluid or perhaps being very rough whilst having a facial stub rubbing up against her privates, somehow translate to higher risks of infection?
Lets say I had bit my tongue just a few moments earlier, and then I went down on her for a quite a while? - wouldnt this require me to be tested?
thanks again!
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HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions; therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.
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Dan,
No, there are no extenuating circumstances that would be considered a risk while going down on a woman and certainly not the ones you cite. You are not going to get anywhere near a woman's cervix - unless you've got a twelve inch tongue. Even then you would not be at risk - not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect.
Hiv transmission doesn't stand a chance of happening via female genitals to mouth - there are just too many obstacles on the oral route.
The first obstacle is the mouth itself. The mouth is a veritable fortress, standing against all sorts of pathogens we come into contact with every minute of our lives. It's a very hostile environment and saliva has been shown to contain over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv.
Hiv is a very fragile virus - literally. Its outer surface doesn't take kindly to changes in its preferred environment; slight changes in temperature, moisture content and pH levels all damage the outer surface. Importantly, it needs this outer surface to be intact before it can latch onto a few, very specific cell types and infect.
Which leads to the second obstacle. Hiv can only latch onto certain types of cells, cells which are not found in abundance in the mouth.
The third obstacle to transmission this way is having hiv present in the first place. The female secretion where hiv has been shown to be present is the cervicovaginal fluid. This fluid is actually a thick mucus that covers and protects the cervix.
The fluid a woman produces when sexually excited comes from the Bartholin's glands, located on either side of the vaginal opening. I have yet to discover one shred of evidence (and believe me, I've looked) that shows this lubricating fluid to have any more hiv present than other bodily secretions such as saliva, sweat or tears. Saliva, sweat and tears are NOT infectious fluids.
So there you have it. Once the results of the serodiscordant studies started rolling in, what we know about hiv transmission on the cellular level was validated. The only people who were getting infected were those who had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. Period. One of the three studies went on for ten years and involved hundreds of couples. That's a lot of nookie.
Don't think that we will allow you to use this forum to continually question this no risk situation. You've already had two time outs and if you get another, it will be permanent. (I re-read your entire thread, I suggest you do the same.)
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!
Ann
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Hi Ann, Andy, and RapidRod,
Its been a while since I visited this forum, which obviously is a good thing :D lol
I'd like to ask you a question -- I had visited a CSW about a week plus ago, and received an unprotected blowjob to ejaculation in her mouth.
I am aware of the fact that insertive oral sex isn't a risk for HIV transmission, however during this session with the CSW, I was feeling the initial stages of a fever/cold coming on.
Turns out a few days later I ended up with a really nasty viral fever. My question is that arguably at the time of the blowjob, my immunity was relatively low and I could feel a slight fever even at the time. I remember I wasn't even able to get fully erect -- that's how weak I was feeling.
Arguably would a blowjob from an infected individual to somebody like me then become a risk?
Thanks :)
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I merged your new thread into your old one where you should post no matter how long between visits or subject matter . You can visit your profile and select show own post and it will take you here .
Your in luck ... getting a blow job is not a risk even when you are sick with a cold . Its a cold dude, its not like you have leukemia and the doctors wiped out your immune system to do chemo . You did not have a risk plain and simple .
Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:
You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.
To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.
Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.
Although you did not have a risk and do not need to test for this specific incident , anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.
If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.
Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv. Some of the other STIs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!
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Thanks Jeff. Appreciate your feedback.
I suppose I got a little jittery because symptoms of my sickness were off & on. Doctor said it was a viral fever, and then as my bad luck had it I ended up with a secondary URTI (Upper Respiratory Tract Infection).
Swollen lymph nodes under my neck and the right side of my face, underneath my sideburn. Fever on & off, cold sweats, body aches. Incidentally I've never had swollen lymph nodes like this -- which got me thinking that this is ARS.
I got a full STD / HIV test test done at the beginning of this year, do you reckon I need to get a HIV test done again given this specific incident? Thanks.
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Dan,
For a start, most "bugs" that go around a community are viral. Flu, the common cold, etc. All viruses. Sheesh. You do realise there are millions of different viruses out there, don't you? Again, sheesh!
I can't think of ANY circumstance where a person would become hiv positive through getting their dick sucked - other than perhaps a scene in a horror film where the hero got his dick chewed on by a person he'd just punched repeatedly in the mouth. And thank you not for making me think of that first thing in the morning.
You got your dick sucked when you were coming down with an ordinary viral illness. Get over it!
Ann
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Hi Guys n Gals. Firstly, thanks for providing such an awesome service :-)
I recently had an odd encounter at a massage parlor and was wondering if I needed to get tested over the following risk factors, some of which I don't know if really existed in the first place. I did my usual routine screening for HIV & STDs about 3 months ago and everything came back non-reactive.
This recent incident at the parlor has left me a tad confused and worried.
a. The masseuse had a visible vaginal gape, aka known as a pretty loose pussy. So anyways I fingered her quite rigorously in both her vagina and ass. I have a tendency of biting my nails and sometimes I have scabs around nails healing, but there are cuts nonetheless. How much of risk does this constitute?
b. I went down on her quite aggressively as well, on both her vagina & ass. Does this constitute any risk?
c. Now this is the tricky part. At one point in order for me to go down on her. She lay on her back and I sort of squatted on my knees akin to how a guy would penetrate a gal missionary style. From this pose, I sort of stooped over in order for me to whisper to her face-to-face. Now I don't recall feeling as if I might have penetrated. But logically I'm wondering if given her "loose" vagina, that I may have during this "stooping" over to talk - accidentally penetrated her without knowing?
d. I distinctly remember rubbing my penis at the entrance of her vaginal gape and across her pussy from the outside. It was pretty dark so I can't be sure if the tip (im uncircumcized) made contact with the entrance of her vaginal gap.
e. All in all, does any (especially c & d) pose a potential risk for HIV transmission? I can't at any point recall feeling as if I penetrated her but still - it was dark and she had a really "loose" pussy. Do you reckon I need to get tested over this incident?
Thanks alot everyone. Have a great day ahead.
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I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.
If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.
Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.
This is the third time you have been told to only post in this one thread so if you ignore it again you will be given a 28 day time out, no exceptions .
You have been around here long enough to know the risk for sexually transmitted HIV comes from unprotected anal or vaginal sex .
The bottom line is we were not there so how the heck would we know if you penetrated her or not . If you are not sure then go test at 6 weeks and again at 12 weeks to confirm the results .
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Thanks Jeff.
Apologies for the repeated violation. Noted.
Understood but as a guy you would feel it once you penetrate a woman yes Jeff? If I didn't feel that - is it safe to assume it didn't happen? Or can penetration take without you feeling it, accidentally?
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Thanks Jeff.
Apologies for the repeated violation. Noted.
Understood but as a guy you would feel it once you penetrate a woman yes Jeff? If I didn't feel that - is it safe to assume it didn't happen? Or can penetration take without you feeling it, accidentally?
You need to be discussing your HIV phobia with your doctors . If we discuss what ifs and imagined HIV risk it would be enabling your admitted HIV phobia .
As I advised already, if you are not sure if you penetrated a person then go test. It really is that simple .
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Hi there :) Been a long time since I've been here! I just have a couple of questions I'd like to clarify;
1. Would you think it's safe for someone to assume that they are HIV negative even though they've had hundreds of protected sex encounters with CSWs? (assuming they don't ever recall a broken condom). Do you know anyone like that?
2. This is more of a technicality but assuming all episodes were protected BUT penetration was deep. My concern is that you know how there's this elastic-like ring at the bottom of a rolled-on condom? Assuming deep penetration for long periods of time; is it possible for HIV to seep in from the bottom of the condom (from the elastic-like ring) and expose me to a risk? I notice that sometimes there's visibly a lot of fluid at the bottom of the condom, so I've always had this concern - what if her fluids got into my condom from the lower end of the condom and expose me to risk?
3. How much of a risk is going down on a woman? Assuming I don't have meth-mouth but I do have bleeding gums when I brush in the mornings.
4. Why do some websites claim that a condom becomes in-effective when rolled-on the wrong way around? Assuming I rolled the condom on the wrong-way round -- how would I even know? Is it safe to think that if a condom is rolled entirely on, that whether it was the right way around or the wrong way around, that it was protected, and therefore no risk for HIV?
5. Finally, do fresh cuts on fingers followed by fingering a girl constitute any hypothetical risk even?
Thanks again.
P/S. I was running through the forum and just wanted to say I really miss the folks from before like Ann, Rapidrod, Andy, etc -- but that said, I was really happy to see Jim still here! Hope all the others mentioned & missed are well!
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1.
Stop trying to be smart, doesn't suit you!
I'll assume nothing and stick to facts like HIV can't transmit through an intact condom during intercourse.
2.
Please stop!
This is just an irrational "what if" fluids are not creeping out of her vagina, then past the condom, up your shaft and finally into your penis.
3
Asked and answered already
4
The internet is filled with outdated and bad info. I can't police that. Using condoms incorrect could increase the odds that it might fail during intercourse
5
No
Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, every time, no exceptions. Consider starting PrEP as an additional layer of HIV protection going forward
Keep in mind that some sexual practices which may be described as ‘safe’ in terms of HIV transmission might still pose a risk for transmission of other STI's, so please do get fully tested regularly and at least yearly for all STI's including but not limited to HIV and test more frequently if unprotected intercourse occurs
Also, note that it is possible to have an STI and show no signs or symptoms and the only way of knowing is by testing.
Kind regards
Jim
Please Note.
As a member of the AM I Infected Forum you are required to only post in this one thread no matter how long between visits or the subject matter. You can find this thread by going to your profile and selecting show own post and it will take you here . It helps us to help you when you keep all your thoughts or questions in one thread and it helps other readers to follow the discussion. Any additional threads will be deleted.
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Thanks Jim!
1. Sorry, wasn't trying to be a smartass, was just concerned about my own history. So what you're saying is that it doesn't matter how many encounters with different CSWs I've had, as long as it was an intact condom, I can assume that I had no viable risks for HIV, yes?
2. Also, what about condom slippage? I recall a few encounters where the condom was half-way off my penis by the end of the episode. It was still on but half-way slipped off my penis -- does that warrant testing beyond the yearly usual?
3. Does PRep have any side effects Jim if I begin taking it as an added measure? I remember one time I did PEP post a condom breakage encounter about 4 years ago. It was really tough on me, so am just asking now about PRep. Thanks :)
Regards,
Dan.
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1. Answered.
2. Not a concern
3.
Like any medication a few people might have noticeable side effects, although asides from prehaps a bit of initial settling in vast majority have no noticeable issues
Discuss the suitability of PrEP for you with your healthcare provider.
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Hi so I’ve had multiple protected encounters with an escort I just recently found out is hiv positive. Couple of questions;
1. I’m panicking but attempting to stay rational. I used durex extrasafe condoms. None failed to the best of my memory but I can’t be 100% sure if a condom failed with her without me knowing it. Do I need to test over this incident?
2. Our sexual encounters were fairly rough. I would penetrate her deeply hence I’m concerned that the base of penis would allowed her fluids to enter my condom from its ring base and infect me. Is this a reasonable risk to be afraid of?
3. I went down on her once or twice — nothing to deep but I definitely used my tongue, what sort of risks are associated with this?
4. She would blow me quite rough. Often her blowjobs would last for quite sometime and she’d be quite rough about it with her teeth and tongue.
Are any of the above risk situations that I need to test over? I’ve received answers before however this time it’s different. This time it’s confirmed that the person I slept with on a few occasions is hiv positive. How do I deal with this situation? What are my real risks here — please advise. I’m freaking out 😒
Thanks!
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I’ve received answers before however this time it’s different. This time it’s confirmed that the person I slept with on a few occasions is hiv positive.
It's not different from an assesment point of view, her HIV status does not change how HIV is or is not transmitted neither does it change how condoms do and do not work. Also, for risk assesment we always by default presume the other person is living with HIV without treatment.
1)
HIV can't transmit through an intact latex or polyurethane condom. If a condom fails during the act of intercourse it's obvious to the insertive partner. There is no reason to be stressing about intercourse as long as this obvious issue did not happen.
2)
Simply irrational
3)
Not an HIV risk
4)
Not an HIV risk
Please apply the information already provided, I am not going to keep repeating things every time you have sex!
Continue to use condoms for any intercourse, no exceptions, test at least yearly out of standard routine for STI's & HIV. Consider talking to your healthcare provider about PrEP as an additional layer of protection & peace of mind.
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Thanks Jim. Appreciate your guidance.
I tested as per standard three months ago, but do you recommend me needing to test again over this particular incident since she’s confirmed positive?
During my most recent encounter, there was a little bit of blood on the condom at one point when I pulled out. Does blood on the condom at the top or even on the unprotected base of your penis pose a risk?
I live in Asia, the healthcare system is fairly odd here. Is there any advice you can give me around how to secure prep as an additional layer of security? Which drug in particular? How do I justify it to a doctor? Are there any side effects? Thanks!
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Did you even bother to read what I said? Clearly not, I'm talking to myself!
I appreciate you have irrational fears however, final time her HIV status changes nothing. 34 posts in, 74 including volunteers replies so you know how HIV is and is not transmitted and what actions are and are not a risk to you.
Now fears or not, move on with your life and get over it already, we are done.
It's not different from an assesment point of view, her HIV status does not change how HIV is or is not transmitted neither does it change how condoms do and do not work. Also, for risk assesment we always by default presume the other person is living with HIV without treatment.
1)
HIV can't transmit through an intact latex or polyurethane condom. If a condom fails during the act of intercourse it's obvious to the insertive partner. There is no reason to be stressing about intercourse as long as this obvious issue did not happen.
2)
Simply irrational
3)
Not an HIV risk
4)
Not an HIV risk
Please apply the information already provided, I am not going to keep repeating things every time you have sex!
Continue to use condoms for any intercourse, no exceptions, test at least yearly out of standard routine for STI's & HIV. Consider talking to your healthcare provider about PrEP as an additional layer of protection & peace of mind.
P.s it's rare for me to loose my temper ever on these forums as I understand people are posting out of fear and I apologise, however, I do stand by the assessment and overall message.
If you keep having these ongoing issues regarding sex and fears consider talking to someone like a therapist face to face.
Consider the topic closed