POZ Community Forums
Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: Solo_LTSurvivor on April 27, 2011, 10:50:00 am
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Obama finally released his official birth certficate (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704187604576288811924282824.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5).
What do you think about it? Do you care at all?
Now Trump is yelling that Obama wasn't smart enough to attend Ivy League schools... this could be the next sequel to Never Ending Story at this rate :-\
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Anderson Cooper basically mopped the floor with Donald Trump; I hope Trump keeps up his incessant whining about non-issues. Makes it look a lot brighter for us all in 2012. He actually stated that he thought Obama's grandparents had the birth announcement placed in the newspaper so that their foreign-born grandchild would be a citizen. This, despite the fact that A.C.'s team discovered that those press releases were STRICTLY from the dept of public health, and the hospital. No one could "pay" to get one put in the newspaper. Officials from the State of Hawaii certify the birth certificate as true and authentic, that is good enough for most of us with half a brain.
All of this 'birther' crap is a form of coded racism, in my opinion. Trump knows exactly what he is doing.
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I don't care in the sense that I don't care where Obama was born and I have no reason to doubt that he was born in Hawaii (lucky sod, Hawaii is one place I'd LOVE to visit). But I do care in the sense that there are so many Americans who believe that he was born outside the US, that he's a Muslim, etc etc, and Alan is absolutely right in saying it's all just thinly veiled racism.
Some people just cannot accept that a man who was born of a black man born in Kenya became president of the United States. Well, I say to them; TOUGH SHIT. He's an American, he's half black and he's your president. Suck it up and move your ass into the 21st century.
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Orly Taitz: Obama's Long-Form Birth Certificate Should Say 'Negro' Not 'African' (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/orly_taitz_obamas_long-form_birth_certificate_should_say_negro_not_african.php)
Reminds of AIDS denialist thinking... nothing will ever convince them.
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I can't find the article I read earlier today with quotes from the RNC chair woman, but basically they are now blaming Obama for making the birth certificate an issue and not focussing on America's problems. They are just full of horseshit!!!
Ahhh, found it:
http://gop.com/index.php/news/comments/rnc_chairman_priebus_statement_on_president_obamas_remarks
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Yes, let's all blame someone else for our looking like asshole wackos. ::)
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Below is a birth certificate made by Mr. Donald Tramp a potential presidential contestants: ;D
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2011/04/politics/interactive.obama.birth.certificate/index.html?hpt=C1
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Metekrop, I merged your thread into the one already going about this subject.
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Orly Taitz: Obama's Long-Form Birth Certificate Should Say 'Negro' Not 'African' (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/orly_taitz_obamas_long-form_birth_certificate_should_say_negro_not_african.php)
That's fucking hilarious. Maybe in 1961 a "negro" man from Africa could be easily called "African" on the "race" line. Hawaiians no doubt had a more sophisticated take on "race" than mainland USA.
Well, is it an actual document, or a print from the microfiche form of it?? The birthers will find anything of course. The pdf I downloaded looks like a print of a microfiche, which will be a pity because then the die hard birthers will hang onto their conspiracies.
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Nobody really cares about where President Obama was born. Nobody cares if he went to Ivy League schools. Nobody cares much about anything about him, except that he is black. That is what so many Americans are afraid of, because they don't like non-white people, especially as president and they really hate the fact, that the color of America is changing and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it. I've seen estimates that by 2030 something, white folks will become a minority in America and to some people, that's like the slaves or migrant workers running the plantation.
I cannot help but notice that these "birther" claims against President Obama, are not based on his character or policies, but about issues over which he never had any control. Kind of like how his being black is somehow his doing, or worse, that being black is a problem at all. This is all about racism of the slimiest kind. To put it bluntly, many white Americans are pissed as hell, because there is a nigger in the White House. Forgive me for that last sentence, but the truth really is this ugly.
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Trump's criticism of Obama's credentials for Ivy League - he picked this up from anti-Obama themes in the blogosphere for a couple of years. That's why I mentioned them in my post - before Trump started talking about that. Trump is going to cycle through all the themes. The next one will be that Obama was funded by the CIA.
The point of Trump dissing Obama's credentials is a theme that held sway for 30 years on Ivy League campuses since affirmative action started until about 2000 or so. It was that undeserving minorities were admitted for ratios and not merit. The really offensive aspect was that once minorities had their Harvard degrees, of course they succeeded in all walks of life - cause of smarts and credentials, obviously. But the conservatives then cut down minorities who have great career success by saying they only got their cause of special considerations.
Sotomayor got the same treatment.
The thing is, you can never ever win with people who see the world as "us" and "them".
As I said, Trump is a very tacky guy who carries a chip on his shoulder and some of this is projection because, in fact, Barack and Michelle are true Establishment insiders, which Trump can never be, with his casinos and vulgar wives, etc etc. You think Trump would be invited to any cocktail on Martha's Vineyard? Ha ha ha ha.
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http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/barack-obama/birth-obama-certer-movement-098513
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The birthers need to do a better job of explaining how the all mighty conspiracy that put Obama in the White House, and the current President with all his power and all his technical agencies, would put out a shoddy fake long-form certificate.
They're claiming its a flimsy photoshop or illustrator job.
As if Obama would allow such shoddy work??? The all powerful black anti-christ?
http://wireupdate.com/video/2011/04/president-obamas-birth-certificate-pdf-has-layers/
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Pat Buchanan was on Hardball defending Trump , he took it futher by insisting the president should show his college exam papers and answer if he was a product of affirmative action . Buchanan insist that its so hard to attend an ivy league school that even that part of his legacy must be in question .
He , like many Americans don't see this pattern of questioning the presidents credentials as racist but it is just that . Nothing will ever satisfy these people .
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Bush earned a gentleman's C at Yale and everyone knows he wasn't brilliant.
Why is it white blue-bloods who get into Ivies on "legacy" admits don't bother the stupid hoi polloi??
Cause it's about race.
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Joe is right, they just can't STAND the fact that a black man is in the white house, with his black wife and black girls. All this nonsense is just racism, plain and simple. I think newscasters need to do a better job of clearly stating that that is what this is: RACISM.
I wouldn't vote for Trump for dog catcher. He is scum to me. I hate his smarmy attitude. He would make a good replacement for Glenn Beck on Faux news
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I say let them keep talking. In the end it will bite them in the ass. Hopefully, rational people will see that its a not so veiled form of racism and President Obama ( I hate it when people just call him Obama, he's the fucking president, have some respect people on TV do it all the time, anyway sorry for the tangent) will be re-elected to a second term.
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I've now seen yesterday's Anderson Cooper interview with Trump.
It was kind of an unfair ambush of Trump because CNN carefully reported all the discrepancies birthers talk about - very good reporting. There's really no doubt left. But clearly Trump hadn't seen the CNN report that was broadcast yesterday, hadn't seen it before he spoke to Cooper. So Trump walks into trap after trap. Its comical and Trump deserved it, but Cooper really didn't play fair.
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I've now seen yesterday's Anderson Cooper interview with Trump.
It was kind of an unfair ambush of Trump because CNN carefully reported all the discrepancies birthers talk about - very good reporting. There's really no doubt left. But clearly Trump hadn't seen the CNN report that was broadcast yesterday, hadn't seen it before he spoke to Cooper. So Trump walks into trap after trap. Its comical and Trump deserved it, but Cooper really didn't play fair.
Exactly how was Cooper unfair to Trump, when this birth certificate issue was settled over a year ago? Just because Trump is unable to see the truth, through his racism, does not alter the truth. Trump knows exactly what he is doing and the fact that he allowed Cooper to gain the upper hand, is a reflection on his reason being blinded by his bigotry. You can never ambush a racist with facts, because facts do not matter. The only thing that matters to the likes of Trump, is to sew hatred and division wherever he goes and there are millions of Americans who lap it up willingly.
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Orly Taitz: Obama's Long-Form Birth Certificate Should Say 'Negro' Not 'African' (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/orly_taitz_obamas_long-form_birth_certificate_should_say_negro_not_african.php)
Reminds of AIDS denialist thinking... nothing will ever convince them.
My 1956 birth certificate says Negro/other, I'm Guido & Black and proud of my interracial heritage ;D
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Exactly how was Cooper unfair to Trump, when this birth certificate issue was settled over a year ago? Just because Trump is unable to see the truth, through his racism, does not alter the truth. Trump knows exactly what he is doing and the fact that he allowed Cooper to gain the upper hand, is a reflection on his reason being blinded by his bigotry. You can never ambush a racist with facts, because facts do not matter. The only thing that matters to the likes of Trump, is to sew hatred and division wherever he goes and there are millions of Americans who lap it up willingly.
Cooper's reporters meticulously reported and debunked the remaining doubts that the birthers have held onto.
Did you watch the episode, Kill??
In particular, it was precisely explained why the birth announcement took more than a week after the birth and also that ONLY the health department could place the announcment, the parents couldnt.
So Donald didn't have that new information. That's all Im saying. He got what he deserved, I agree with you. But the interview was a trap set by Cooper.
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Cooper's reporters meticulously reported and debunked the remaining doubts that the birthers have held onto.
Did you watch the episode, Kill??
In particular, it was precisely explained why the birth announcement took more than a week after the birth and also that ONLY the health department could place the announcment, the parents couldnt.
So Donald didn't have that new information. That's all Im saying. He got what he deserved, I agree with you. But the interview was a trap set by Cooper.
I'm not understanding why you think its unfair on CNN's part . Trump is going around the country talking the issue up and CNN is reporting it , if Trump's homework on the subject is wanting why blame CNN or Cooper .
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I'm not understanding why you think its unfair on CNN's part . Trump is going around the country talking the issue up and CNN is reporting it , if Trump's homework on the subject is wanting why blame CNN or Cooper .
FUCK DONALD TRUMP
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They were talking at cross purposes on different points. Anderson could have point by point clearly explained the new information and Trump wouldn't have been able to respond off topic. That's all. no big deal. It was good reporting but a bad interview.
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In particular, it was precisely explained why the birth announcement took more than a week after the birth and also that ONLY the health department could place the announcment, the parents couldnt.
So Donald didn't have that new information. That's all Im saying. He got what he deserved, I agree with you. But the interview was a trap set by Cooper.
This isn't new information at all!
From Factcheck.org
Advertiser, July 28, 2009: Such vital statistics, however, were not sent to the newspapers by the general public but by the Health Department, which received the information directly from hospitals, Okubo said. Birth announcements from the public ran elsewhere in both papers and usually included information such as the newborn’s name, weight and time of birth.
source: http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/donald-youre-fired/
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FUCK DONALD TRUMP
I'd rather not actually. The man is nasty looking....
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Joe is right, they just can't STAND the fact that a black man is in the white house, with his black wife and black girls. All this nonsense is just racism, plain and simple. I think newscasters need to do a better job of clearly stating that that is what this is: RACISM.
I wouldn't vote for Trump for dog catcher. He is scum to me. I hate his smarmy attitude. He would make a good replacement for Glenn Beck on Faux news
On a side note: what I find to be absolutely high larious is that a friend of mine was telling me about how Trump has a group of women: NeNe Leakes (from the Real Housewives of Atlanta), Star Jones, and LaToya Jackson (I think?) all on Celebrity Apprentice this season and they are all acting outrageous and that it was must see TV.
At any rate, I've never watched the show, nor do I care for Trump but last night while watching The Voice, I happened to catch previews of the next episode of Celebrity Apprentice and it was like watching three hood rats auditioning for a part in a minstrel show. I was waiting for one of them to pull out a box cutter to slash one another.
It's a bit ironic that Trump wants to stir up this idiotic conspiracy with racist undertones, but he has no problem allowing stereotypical behavior (that his fan base seems to think is the norm when it comes to the way ALL people of color act) to be front and center on his show.
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This isn't new information at all!
From Factcheck.org
source: http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/donald-youre-fired/
Ah-ha! OK.
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It's a bit ironic that Trump wants to stir up this idiotic conspiracy with racist undertones, but he has no problem allowing stereotypical behavior (that his fan base seems to think is the norm when it comes to the way ALL people of color act) to be front and center on his show.
it's not "ironic". It's straightforwardly logical because that is the world view of these types.
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The birther issue is a mute subject. Even if the Long form released by the White House has "layers" or issues with it there is not much that can be done. How would one go about actually proving its a fake? It would be impossible for Trump or his minions or any of the birthers to get their hands on the original. The Certificate of Live Birth is good enough on it's own. I don't believe it says anywhere that a Certificate of Live birth is not valid proof to be President. I doubt the whole issue is even addressed anywhere, other than the nebulous "Must have been born in the US".
Trump is doing himself, and his potential candidacy, a huge disservice by pursuing this. He is marginalizing himself. If he truly wanted to be taken seriously he would challenge Obama on the real issues and attemp to garner support that way. I doubt he is even going to run, but if he does he will look back on this Birther issue as a mistake. I can't imagine what his advisors are thinking they can gain by this.
-Will
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I highly doubt Trump has ANY advisors. He claimed to have sent investigators to Hawaii but that was a joke, just like his claimed billions.
His dare was he would release his Tax returns when Obama released his long form.
Tapping my fingers in anticipation.
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Cooper's reporters meticulously reported and debunked the remaining doubts that the birthers have held onto.
Did you watch the episode, Kill??
In particular, it was precisely explained why the birth announcement took more than a week after the birth and also that ONLY the health department could place the announcment, the parents couldnt.
So Donald didn't have that new information. That's all Im saying. He got what he deserved, I agree with you. But the interview was a trap set by Cooper.
What a crock! You mean by having the truth that almost everyone, including Trump, knows is somehow a "trap"? This is another one of your attempts to play both sides -- Trump was NO VICTIM here. He got what he deserved. The "facts" in this issue were settled long ago -- Trump decided to score some points and poll numbers by bringing it up again. Anderson was able to force his hand -- and make him look like an idiot (well, more of an idiot) in the process. That is not entrapment -- that is sweet justice.
This was no trap -- nor a bad interview. It was a well deserved come-uppance for a meglomaniac. I can't imagine Trump ever seriously considering running for President -- he's simply about getting more face time on TV.
Spare me the sympathy for saying Trump was "trapped"
Mike
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I'd rather not actually. The man is nasty looking....
SHit he'd probably like it ;D oh wait, you might mess up his come-over :D :D :D I bet him and Rep. Raul Ryan (R-Wisc.) are fuck buddies ;D
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As everyone here has said over and over again, this is all about race. They just cannot accept that a black man is president. Donald thrives on attention and he got it. And, questioning his grades is also racist. They cannot believe a black man could be so smart and get into those schools without affirmative action. They didn't question how Bush got into Yale and Harvard. We know he got in due to his name. There really was a valid question to be answered as to whether John McCain was born in the U.S. They didn't care about that. Actually, the words "Natural Born Citizen" in the Constitution in regards to qualification to be President have never been answered by the Supreme Court. Does it mean anyone who is now a citizen who was born through a vagina? ;D What I've always thought is funny is if President Obama could manufacture a birth certificate way in advance to become president, why not change his name to something "more American," so he wouldn't have to deal with all the Muslim shit?
Lawrence O'Donnell blasted his employer tonight and it wasn't the first time. He said Donald can say he intends to run at any time. It is only when he files papers of candidacy that there would be a conflict. O'Donnell said NBC executives know very well whether Donald will be back in the Fall. NBC already knows their Fall lineup. They've already announced several shows are returning. NBC will make their formal schedule announcement in a couple weeks. But, they already know Donald's future with the network, but are staying silent. He said NBC executives need to report Donald's future with NBC TONIGHT, because they are withholding important information and are aiding Trump in his ridiculousness.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42790508#42790588
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Maybe someone can invent a new meaning for the name Trump. Like the way they did for Rick Santorum.
I'm thinking along the lines of Trump: the sound a large turd makes when hitting the water.
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Maybe someone can invent a new meaning for the name Trump. Like the way they did for Rick Santorum.
I'm thinking along the lines of Trump: the sound a large turd makes when hitting the water.
:D :D :D
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As everyone here has said over and over again, this is all about race.
I think this is only a little bit about racism. While there is clearly a racist core group, I think it is a mistake to assume that all of the people pushing this fallacy are doing so because of racism. Instead, I'd argue that the majority are political opportunists who see this as a way to generate attention to trivial issues and slow down political process while a relatively liberal Democrat is President.
Stories about the "birther" issue are a distraction for the media and the public that sucks the oxygen out of stories focusing on more and more people being out of work for years or the fact that people are losing their homes and eating from food banks while the billionaire class constructs a robber baron age for the 21st century.
Obama said he was driven to release the long form because he couldn't get any media oxygen for serious issues, and I suspect that lack of oxygen is no accident. That's not to imply a "vast right wing conspiracy", but just to say that a lot of Republicans see this as an opportunity and are cynically jumping on it.
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I think this is only a little bit about racism. While there is clearly a racist core group, I think it is a mistake to assume that all of the people pushing this fallacy are doing so because of racism. Instead, I'd argue that the majority are political opportunists who see this as a way to generate attention to trivial issues and slow down political process while a relatively liberal Democrat is President.
That might hold water if the Republican Party wasn't 99% white. Even David Frum isn't buying it (http://www.frumforum.com/the-birther-disgrace) anymore.
Do you honestly think that if Obama's name was Joe Smith and he was white any of this birther BS would have come about? Please.
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That might hold water if the Republican Party wasn't 99% white.
Correct me if I'm wrong (there's a first time for eveything), but wasn't the "birther" issue started by Hillary Clinton Supporters (dems), during the Primaries?
But, yes, I agree that it is probably at least a bit of a racist issue fueling the birthers.
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My 1956 birth certificate says Negro/other, I'm Guido & Black and proud of my interracial heritage ;D
Hey D, your certificate has a spot which indicates the baby's race? I went digging and found a copy of my COLB (certificate of live birth) which is similar to Obama's long form and the only space it indicated race was for my parents.
I guess it all depends on the individual states, as to what gets recorded. At first glance it looked like mine didn't have all of the information that Obama's seemed to have, but then I realized the layout was slightly different. I guess I should be used to NY cramming a lot into as little space as possible ;D
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I think this is only a little bit about racism.
I'm sorry but Miss P and Joe summed it up quite nicely. People can try and sugar coat it as much as they'd like, but they are living in some fractured fairy tale if they think racism isn't fueling this idiocy
Do you honestly think that if Obama's name was Joe Smith and he was white any of this birther BS would have come about? Please.
I cannot help but notice that these "birther" claims against President Obama, are not based on his character or policies, but about issues over which he never had any control. Kind of like how his being black is somehow his doing, or worse, that being black is a problem at all. This is all about racism of the slimiest kind. To put it bluntly, many white Americans are pissed as hell, because there is a nigger in the White House. Forgive me for that last sentence, but the truth really is this ugly.
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I'm sorry but Miss P and Joe summed it up quite nicely. People can try and sugar coat it as much as they'd like, but they are living in some fractured fairy tale if they think racism isn't fueling this idiocy
I did not say there was no racism involved. There is a core group of racists here -- but to believe they are what is making the story a big one is to fail to reflect on and learn from history. There is, after all, a quite direct parallel here to the tactics deployed against the most recent prior Democratic President, which noone argued was about racism but again showed the ability to blow ( :)) a story out of proportion for political gain.
This story is as much about racism as the Clinton impeachment was about sexual impropropriety. There is a core nugget of racism / prudery at the center of the story surrounded by oceans of political opportunists who see a cynical opportunity to try to slow, stop and reverse the momentum of a Democratic Administration.
The problem with the analysis that this is about racism is that it leads to the wrong actions -- a desire to play the story up so as to be able to demostrate the wrongness of its racist underpinnings. But that is falling for the bait.
Rather than helping play up the story and taking pressure off the media to address the real problems of the country we'd be better off if people dismissed it and focused on jobs, unemployment and the wealth gap.
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I saw a list tonight of all the members of Congress who are supporting the birthers. They are all from southern states except for Rep Burton from Indiana. Michelle Bachman wasn't on that list for some reason. I read the birther sites on the web and on Facebook. They constantly make remarks about the Obama's being from "the hood" and cartoons of the President as a monkey or with watermelons growing on the South Lawn.
I think this is driven by racism. I just can't imagine them doing this with John Kerry even when they tried to say he was French. I will agree that the repubs would have tried to find something on President Obama or invented something to try and bring him down. But, they were handed this by racists in their party. If this doesn't work, they will come up with something else. I just read an investigation has been opened into Pres. Obama's 2008 campaign finances. Maybe they will try to do something with that, if this doesn't work.
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Maybe those racist buttons have to pressed further and further until the racism is exorcised like the devil it is.
After Obama the country needs a nonwhite woman. I wonder if there is a US born arab princess, or someone like that. Get it all out there until it implodes.
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America Ferrara for President. With a name like that....
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If you want a totally surreal experience, watch both the videos referenced in the article below. One of them left me speechless. You guess which one.
Conservative reaction to Obama birth certificate mimics Stephen Colbert (Video)
By Ryan Witt, Political Buzz Examiner
April 28th, 2011 12:34 pm ET
President Obama released his “long form” birth certificate yesterday, but some were still skeptical about the President’s citizenship after the release. Last night both Stephen Colbert and Eric Boiling of the Fox Business Network went on long rants questioning the birth certificate and other aspects of Presient Obama’s life. The only difference between the two is that Colbert was sarcastically playing an ultra-conservative character in order to point out the absurdity of the conspiracy theorists. Boiling and his panel, on the other hand, were being completely serious in their segment.
In the video segment to the left, Colbert runs down a long list of other questions he has about President Obama even after he released the “long form” that the birthers have been asking for. Colbert first asks why the “long form” is, in fact, shorter than the “short firm” birth certificate that the Obama campaign released in 2008. Colbert then demands to see the “longer form” and the “longest form.” Colbert demands a foot-long form since it only costs $5. Colbert goes to ask why he cannot see President Obama’s elementary school grades, and whether the President is really even black since we “can’t be certain who this man’s parents are.” Colbert concludes, “He could be white, and if that’s the case, I don’t understand why we’re still questioning his legitimacy.”
While Colbert was acting, there are still many conservatives who actually still doubt the President’s place of birth despite the release of this new form. The “Birther Queen” Orly Taitz expressed skepticism about the “long form” birth certificate because it referred to Obama as an “African America” instead of a “Negro.” The website World Net Daily, a sort of “birther” headquarters, said that they still could not confirm the President was born here until they more closely examined the “long form” certificate. Even Newt Gingrich expressed skepticism, asking why the President had not released the “long form” at an earlier date. In the video found here, Eric Bolling of the Fox Business Networks hosts a number of conservative guests who suggest the birth certificate was “photoshopped” and raise a number of other “legitimate” questions about the “long form.” The Colbert segment and the Bolling segment on Fox Business, some may find it hard to tell that much of a difference.
Link: http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/conservative-reaction-to-obama-birth-certificate-mimics-stephen-colbert-video (http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/conservative-reaction-to-obama-birth-certificate-mimics-stephen-colbert-video)
And on a related note, a poster on FB is demanding to see the long form, that confirms that Donald Trump is not a festering pile of shit.
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If you want a totally surreal experience, watch both the videos referenced in the article below. One of them left me speechless. You guess which one.
Joe, you inspired me to dig this (http://youtu.be/SzL9_KhxDdk) up after I watched that video you posted.
Some things never change.
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New Yorker Editor David Remnick's rant on race baiting.
This was from a few days ago and sums it up pretty well:
http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/donald-trump-david-remnick-birther-new-yorker_b34036
"Let’s be even plainer: to do what Trump has done (and he is only the latest and loudest and most spectacularly hirsute) is a conscious form of race-baiting, of fear-mongering… The shame is that there are still many more around who, in the name of truth-telling, are prepared to pump the atmosphere full of poison."
Ray