POZ Community Forums

Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: Grasshopper on March 16, 2011, 09:18:54 am

Title: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Grasshopper on March 16, 2011, 09:18:54 am
Casey Heynes had enough of being bullied :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlfokvjooZw
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: hope_for_a_cure on March 16, 2011, 10:18:54 am
I was on the receiving end of verbal bullying when I was in grade school.  It does have an affect on kids and makes going to school a living hell at times.  The problem seems to be worse for these kids today though and retaliation now comes through the use of guns in some instances.  I will confess that I faked a few stomach aches just to get out of going to school. 

The bully in that clip did get what he deserved and I wonder if it actually caused him to stop.  I would guess that many of the young bullies grow up to become true assholes when they reach adulthood. 
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Joe K on March 16, 2011, 10:48:09 am
I can so relate to what Casey did. I was being bullied in the 8th grade, by a kid who thought he was so tough. As I was leaving school, he tried to start a fight with me and when I turned my back, he jumped on me. I was much taller than he was, so I dropped my books, and fell back, onto the pavement, with the bully pinned under me. He was so stupid, to have done this, in front of the principals office. He got dragged back into the office, while I composed myself and went home. He got suspended and I learned how to stand up for myself.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: denb45 on March 16, 2011, 12:56:09 pm
I can so relate to what Casey did. I was being bullied in the 8th grade, by a kid who thought he was so tough. As I was leaving school, he tried to start a fight with me and when I turned my back, he jumped on me. I was much taller than he was, so I dropped my books, and fell back, onto the pavement, with the bully pinned under me. He was so stupid, to have done this, in front of the principals office. He got dragged back into the office, while I composed myself and went home. He got suspended and I learned how to stand up for myself.

Joe, I can relate to THIS, my parents always told me to NEVER go down with out a fight, especially if you didn't start it, if someone hit you or bullied you they always said DO IT BACK TO THEM, well they were correct
I'm glad I learned that form them as a very young boy  ;)
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Jeff G on March 16, 2011, 01:21:13 pm
I was only bullied twice in grammar school , I stood up to it so they backed off quick .

When I was in high school it got out that I was gay and after awhile I quit school because I didn't feel safe anymore . I was really just tired of the isolation and having to constantly watch my back .

looking back now I realize that I was probably in more danger then than I realized . I truly feel if i hadn't dropped out of school I would have been physically harmed .

I was watching Glee last night and saw the boys have they're first kiss , it made me proud and happy that young men and women are able to see how natural and exciting such a simple thing as a kiss can be , a simple kiss is something some straight people take for granted but means so very much for the the self esteem gay youth never dreamed of having in my days of growing up .   
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Joe K on March 16, 2011, 01:32:26 pm
I was watching Glee last night and saw the boys have they're first kiss , it made me proud and happy that young men and women are able to see how natural and exciting such a simple thing as a kiss can be , a simple kiss is something some straight people take for granted but means so very much for the the self esteem gay youth never dreamed of having in my days of growing up .   

Just imagine how different our lives could have been, if we had such support for being ourselves. I so wanted to have Kurt's dad, someone to tell me that I mattered for just being me.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: David_CA on March 16, 2011, 01:49:54 pm
I wasn't bullied much, but I did fight back the times I was.  One time in particular, I was being picked on by a fifth grader (I was in third grade) while riding the school bus.  He was in the seat behind me and kept poking me with  a pencil, pulling my hair, hitting me, and generally bothering me.  I had my trusty Scooby Doo lunchbox (the sturdy metal kind) with me, as usual.  I swung it around and the corner of my lunchbox hit the guy right in the temple.  He fell back in the seat and stared straight ahead for the rest of the ride.  I don't recall him looking at me, sitting near me, etc ever again.  I was picked on by a few more people over the years, but always fought back and ended up with them leaving me alone.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: denb45 on March 16, 2011, 02:12:38 pm
Just imagine how different our lives could have been, if we had such support for being ourselves. I so wanted to have Kurt's dad, someone to tell me that I mattered for just being me.

Agreed, there still isn't enough of that around, but it's hopeful, things are looking up  ;)
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: denb45 on March 16, 2011, 02:14:42 pm
I wasn't bullied much, but I did fight back the times I was.  One time in particular, I was being picked on by a fifth grader (I was in third grade) while riding the school bus.  He was in the seat behind me and kept poking me with  a pencil, pulling my hair, hitting me, and generally bothering me.  I had my trusty Scooby Doo lunchbox (the sturdy metal kind) with me, as usual.  I swung it around and the corner of my lunchbox hit the guy right in the temple.  He fell back in the seat and stared straight ahead for the rest of the ride.  I don't recall him looking at me, sitting near me, etc ever again.  I was picked on by a few more people over the years, but always fought back and ended up with them leaving me alone.

David  ;D all it takes is once  ;)
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: hope_for_a_cure on March 16, 2011, 02:44:17 pm
Yea, that kid that wanted to start trouble with me ended up in a bad way.  I did not use physical force with him but he did his own self in with cheating.  The school expelled his butt and after another incident which to this day I dont know the details of, he was removed and never came back. 

I do remember wanting to beat his ass but did not do so. 
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: WillyWump on March 16, 2011, 03:20:50 pm
Nice body slam! Good for the boy, I bet that guy doesnt bother him anymore.

-W
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Jeff G on March 16, 2011, 03:50:27 pm
That video should be a lesson for bullies everywhere ... if you are gonna bully someone you should bring a weapon in case they try to fight back .
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: hope_for_a_cure on March 16, 2011, 03:54:24 pm
The local news around here this week is about a kid on trial for a shooting that took place in Sept.  He was tired of being the target of a bully and took a gun to school and used it.  
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Joe K on March 16, 2011, 03:55:59 pm
What bothers me about this story, is that Casey got suspended as well, for simply defending himself. I don't really care what the school policy may say about violence, but what message does this send, to Casey, about how he reacted to a bully. These zero-tolerance rules are very damaging to the very people they are suppose to protect. Most probably he would not have been suspended, if he just stood there and took whatever punches were dealt. How sick is that? If I were his parents, I would be suing the school district and pressing assault charges against the bully. They make the rules and the buck stops with the school district.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: WillyWump on March 16, 2011, 04:04:38 pm
How sick is that? If I were his parents, I would be suing the school district and pressing assault charges against the bully. They make the rules and the buck stops with the school district.

Absolutely 100% agree! Since when is self defense a crime?
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: mecch on March 16, 2011, 04:21:58 pm
The pip squeak bully got what was coming to him.  But the fat loser should learn his body strength - that slam to the sidewalk was violent and might have ended in a broken neck, or worse.  Then where would we be.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: WillyWump on March 16, 2011, 04:40:19 pm
But the fat loser 

You were a bully in school weren't you?
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: denb45 on March 16, 2011, 04:48:25 pm
You were a bully in school weren't you?

Willy, I was when I played football & Basketball, until somebody kicked my ass, who was bigger than me,
after that, I wasn't a bully anymore, and tried to help and defend others who were  ;) also I was Gay
and didn't want anyone to find that out, but when they did, I was in the 12th Grade, so it wasn't that bad  :D
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: WillyWump on March 16, 2011, 04:58:26 pm
Willy, I was when I played football & Basketball, until somebody kicked my ass, who was bigger than me,
after that, I wasn't a bully anymore, and tried to help and defend others who were  ;) also I was Gay
and didn't want anyone to find that out, but when they did, I was in the 12th Grade, so it wasn't that bad  :D

I'll never forget the time I was being bullied on my way home from school, the guy (Paul) wouldnt leave me alone...finally he came at me and somehow I managed to flip him over my back and he landed on his ass, I will never forget the look on his face. Interestingly enough Paul and I became best friends after that, we parted ways in High school and later saw him on the news, he had murdered an Austin Taxi Driver for $15. ahhh but we had some good times prior to that

-W
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: GSOgymrat on March 16, 2011, 05:00:46 pm
I don't recall being bullied in school. One of my high school classmates told me years after graduation that he and others assumed I was a wimp because I was bookish and quiet. Apparently that changed when I told off a big football player during French club who was trying to give me a hard time. I can't remember what I said and only vaguely remember the incident but apparently it was a "holy shit!" moment for my classmates.

Watch out for the quiet types.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: hope_for_a_cure on March 16, 2011, 05:04:08 pm
we parted ways in High school and later saw him on the news, he had murdered an Austin Taxi Driver for $15.

-W

Now thats a story on the local news that got your attention no doubt.  He has some new friends these days.... and prolly is now a bottom!  
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Joe K on March 16, 2011, 05:23:03 pm
The pip squeak bully got what was coming to him.  But the fat loser should learn his body strength - that slam to the sidewalk was violent and might have ended in a broken neck, or worse.  Then where would we be.

You really are a piece of work. To come into a thread, with the topic of bullying and to throw around your own form of bullying is almost too precious for words. But not quite, so please keep your hateful comments to yourself. Without a doubt, you are a bully of the most devious kind.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: anniebc on March 16, 2011, 05:28:46 pm
  But the fat loser should learn his body strength -

"The Fat Loser"..oh that's rich Mecch, and typical isnt' it...so what's the matter, are you upset because some big guy got the better of you when you were bullying him at school....Jeez.

Jan
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: denb45 on March 16, 2011, 05:31:03 pm
I don't recall being bullied in school. One of my high school classmates told me years after graduation that he and others assumed I was a wimp because I was bookish and quiet. Apparently that changed when I told off a big football player during French club who was trying to give me a hard time. I can't remember what I said and only vaguely remember the incident but apparently it was a "holy shit!" moment for my classmates.

Watch out for the quiet types.

 :D :D :D Ford, I bet the football player, was so confused by what you said, it was way too embarrassing
for him anyway.....I was that guy  ;D
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: wolfter on March 16, 2011, 08:31:55 pm
The pip squeak bully got what was coming to him.  But the fat loser should learn his body strength - that slam to the sidewalk was violent and might have ended in a broken neck, or worse.  Then where would we be.

Before I even read the rest of the posts and develop "group think", I must say this comment is so far beyond my comprehension of civility.  I'm stuned at your reaction and hope a retraction comes forth soon.

After a few moments of pondering, I really worry this is your reality of the world and worry that I'll never consider anything you say as useful again.  I surely hope this was some misguided attempt at humor and you appease my delicate sensibilities.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: rondrond on March 16, 2011, 08:45:42 pm
Well, if you saw my pictures in another thread, you know that everyone knew I was a homo-SEX-u-al...they didn't use the word Gay until much later....

I was fortunate in that I had a lot of friends, for some reason, .. ::)
(mom said that I was always popular with the boys)  and we all looked out for each others backs.

Any bullying I got was verbal as I grew like a weed and toppled over everyone...I was 6'3" by the end of high school...
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: wolfter on March 16, 2011, 08:46:27 pm
I remember the story of Matthew Shepherd and how I cried when I watched it.  Bullying to the extreme.  This poor child defecated when suffering horror at the hands of his tormentors and I watched the pain on his mother's face.  I'm dumbfounded to say the least and need to leave for a while.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: fearless on March 16, 2011, 11:25:23 pm
That happened in Sydney. The general public sentiment around here is that the bully got what he deserved.
The laughable thing is that the bully's mother is now demanding an apology!!! unbelievable.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Jeff G on March 16, 2011, 11:34:59 pm
That happened in Sydney. The general public sentiment around here is that the bully got what he deserved.
The laughable thing is that the bully's mother is now demanding an apology!!! unbelievable.

It seems some parents are too busy enabling bad behavior rather than correcting it . I'm officially an old fart now , I don't like allot of what I see these days .
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: mecch on March 17, 2011, 08:40:34 am
Hey I apologise. I called the bully a pip squeak and bullied boy a fat loser imagining those were the terms used.  It was a sort of black humour and I see it pushed some people's buttons here so really I apologise for the bad taste.

And no i wasn't a bully in school.  Was bullied a bit for being faggy but since I played most sports and finally varsity sports, and dated cheerleaders, the bullying never got intense.

And I do think the reaction was too violent and he'll have to learn to fight clean cause he could have really squashed that kid, and then his own life would get considerably worse.

Heres some more details on the story:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/casey-the-punisher-bullying-victims-schoolyard-justice-becomes-worldwide-web-sensation/
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: GSOgymrat on March 17, 2011, 10:04:43 am
And I do think the reaction was too violent and he'll have to learn to fight clean cause he could have really squashed that kid

What does "learn to fight clean" mean? He didn't sucker punch the kid.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: wolfter on March 17, 2011, 10:14:58 am
I think his reaction was dead on.  I'm sure this kid has suffered for some time now and finally had enough.  Maybe this little rat will realize that just because someone is docile, doesn't mean they won't finally zap your ass.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: mecch on March 17, 2011, 04:32:46 pm
Read the article.  He's been the school victim for a long time, it seems.
Im not justifying the bullying at all, and I think he did well to fight back, however Im not the only one who has remarked on the violent "defense" - hes pretty old, he's huge.  If he had slammed that boy down on his head it might be a different story.
I was present when a small framed friend of mine had his neck broken in a such a pushing match. 

I guess a "clean" return would have been a punch right back to the face. Or a full body take down. The bullied kid threw the small boy onto the payment. I cringed in fear when I saw that.

I think that is why he was expelled, as well.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Jeff G on March 17, 2011, 05:22:25 pm
Read the article.  He's been the school victim for a long time, it seems.
Im not justifying the bullying at all, and I think he did well to fight back, however Im not the only one who has remarked on the violent "defense" - hes pretty old, he's huge.  If he had slammed that boy down on his head it might be a different story.
I was present when a small framed friend of mine had his neck broken in a such a pushing match. 

I guess a "clean" return would have been a punch right back to the face. Or a full body take down. The bullied kid threw the small boy onto the payment. I cringed in fear when I saw that.

I think that is why he was expelled, as well.


I guess you have to give the kid the benefit of the doubt ... he wasn't the aggressor , probably hasn't fought much and didn't know his own strength . It turned out to be a bad day for the bully .
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: skeebo1969 on March 17, 2011, 06:59:02 pm


   You've got to give the bully some credit though..  I mean at this point pride is everything and he tries dearly to save what little is left by getting up and walking around like a monkey.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: bocker3 on March 17, 2011, 07:44:19 pm
Read the article.  He's been the school victim for a long time, it seems.
Im not justifying the bullying at all, and I think he did well to fight back, however Im not the only one who has remarked on the violent "defense" - hes pretty old, he's huge.  If he had slammed that boy down on his head it might be a different story.
I was present when a small framed friend of mine had his neck broken in a such a pushing match. 

I guess a "clean" return would have been a punch right back to the face. Or a full body take down. The bullied kid threw the small boy onto the payment. I cringed in fear when I saw that.

I think that is why he was expelled, as well.

Just a bit of blame the victim going on here.  The bully started it -- if he, in the end, gets the worst of it -- tough shit.  He shouldn't have started it.  It's not like the kid pulled a gun on his attacker -- he simply fought back.  The bullied kid didn't throw "the small boy" , he threw the kid who bullied him.  Stop defending his actions -- he was wrong and the "big kid" did what was necessary.
You may not have been a bully -- but it is crap like this that helps perpetuate it....  he got what he deserved.  Your defending him is no different than a parent saying "boys will be boys". 

Mike
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Hellraiser on March 17, 2011, 10:21:12 pm
The smaller kid received a fractured leg out of the whole ordeal.  If the larger kid had waited til the next day and brought a gun to school however none of you would be supporting his actions.  Emphasis:  What he did could have been just as lethal, luckily it wasn't.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: skeebo1969 on March 17, 2011, 10:34:43 pm



   It looked like a bait and switch to me.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: bocker3 on March 18, 2011, 07:43:19 am
The smaller kid received a fractured leg out of the whole ordeal.  If the larger kid had waited til the next day and brought a gun to school however none of you would be supporting his actions.  Emphasis:  What he did could have been just as lethal, luckily it wasn't.

The "smaller" kid could have left him alone.  Emphasis:  He'd be walking without the aid of crutches.

Who gives a shit about the size of the kid.  A bully is a bully.  Why don't you all stop trying to make the bullied kid the bad guy here.  And, PLEASE stop referring to him as the "small" kid -- his size didn't stop him from bullying a larger kid, so it shouldn't matter in the response to his bullying.

I simply don't understand why people are trying to make it sound like the victim did something wrong here.  This is why bullying will never stop -- people give signals that it isn't all that bad.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: skeebo1969 on March 18, 2011, 08:39:19 am



    They removed the video...    I found a similar video though to keep the discussion going.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMu2xNBpyQc
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: hope_for_a_cure on March 18, 2011, 08:52:58 am
I thought Steven Seagal was a reptilian.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Florida69 on March 18, 2011, 10:03:34 am
what is that asian saying, "beware of waking the sleeping giant?"  the kid being bullied did indeed try to turn the other cheek, however Darwin taught us that we use fight of flight in order to defend ourself.  I am gald that he stood up for himself.  There are bully's even on this forum. have a great day... D
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Joe K on March 18, 2011, 02:51:20 pm
Part of the reason that we cannot minimize bullying, is the insistence by some folks, who were not present, to decide on what really happened. Of course it could have been worse, so what is your point? The video is all we have to go on and based on what I saw, the bully got exactly what he deserved. The kids history with each other, etc., is all reported after the incident and what the video shows, is a kid being assaulted, showing remarkable restraint, until his personal rights had been violated just one too many times. The bully has nothing to condone his behavior, whereas the assaulted has every legal right to defend himself. How he chose to do that, is for him only to decide and all the rest is just conjecture.

Sadly, that conjecture obscures the reality that this kid was bullied and now he is being victimized for defending himself. How can we ever expect children, to understand that bullying is wrong, in any form, when too many people keep making excuses for it? Assaulting another person is wrong and illegal and calling it bullying does not change the fact, that it remains assault.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: bocker3 on March 18, 2011, 05:34:42 pm
How can we ever expect children, to understand that bullying is wrong, in any form, when too many people keep making excuses for it? Assaulting another person is wrong and illegal and calling it bullying does not change the fact, that it remains assault.


thanks Joe!


Worth repeating because too many have lost sight of this simple fact.


Mike
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: RapidRod on March 18, 2011, 06:58:47 pm
Read the article.  He's been the school victim for a long time, it seems.
Im not justifying the bullying at all, and I think he did well to fight back, however Im not the only one who has remarked on the violent "defense" - hes pretty old, he's huge.  If he had slammed that boy down on his head it might be a different story.
I was present when a small framed friend of mine had his neck broken in a such a pushing match. 

I guess a "clean" return would have been a punch right back to the face. Or a full body take down. The bullied kid threw the small boy onto the payment. I cringed in fear when I saw that.

I think that is why he was expelled, as well.
Clean fighting? Don't think so. If I'm pushed in a position to fight, I'm going to fight to win, I'm not going to concern myself if I hurt the other person, that would be the last thing on my mind.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: WillyWump on March 18, 2011, 08:59:09 pm
Part of the reason that we cannot minimize bullying, is the insistence by some folks, who were not present, to decide on what really happened. Of course it could have been worse, so what is your point? The video is all we have to go on and based on what I saw, the bully got exactly what he deserved. The kids history with each other, etc., is all reported after the incident and what the video shows, is a kid being assaulted, showing remarkable restraint, until his personal rights had been violated just one too many times. The bully has nothing to condone his behavior, whereas the assaulted has every legal right to defend himself. How he chose to do that, is for him only to decide and all the rest is just conjecture.

Sadly, that conjecture obscures the reality that this kid was bullied and now he is being victimized for defending himself. How can we ever expect children, to understand that bullying is wrong, in any form, when too many people keep making excuses for it? Assaulting another person is wrong and illegal and calling it bullying does not change the fact, that it remains assault.

Spot on and well said Joe! (as usual)

-Will
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Hellraiser on March 18, 2011, 09:12:26 pm
The "smaller" kid could have left him alone.  Emphasis:  He'd be walking without the aid of crutches.

Who gives a shit about the size of the kid.  A bully is a bully.  Why don't you all stop trying to make the bullied kid the bad guy here.  And, PLEASE stop referring to him as the "small" kid -- his size didn't stop him from bullying a larger kid, so it shouldn't matter in the response to his bullying.

I simply don't understand why people are trying to make it sound like the victim did something wrong here.  This is why bullying will never stop -- people give signals that it isn't all that bad.

Why don't you all stop trying to lump everyone else into one category?  I never said anything about thinking the smaller kid was in the right, that the larger kid did not have a right to defend himself, or that I agreed with the action that took place (on either party's part).  I simply commented that had the circumstances been slightly different the reaction would have been massively changed.  I saw this video on facebook about a day or two before it was posted here and I was quite glad to see the larger kid (and make no mistake about it he is noticably larger, thanks) show the smaller kid the rewards of unwanted aggression.  I'm also an adult who realizes that what happened could've been really bad very easily.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: bocker3 on March 18, 2011, 11:15:44 pm
Why don't you all stop trying to lump everyone else into one category?  I never said anything about thinking the smaller kid was in the right, that the larger kid did not have a right to defend himself, or that I agreed with the action that took place (on either party's part).  I simply commented that had the circumstances been slightly different the reaction would have been massively changed.  I saw this video on facebook about a day or two before it was posted here and I was quite glad to see the larger kid (and make no mistake about it he is noticably larger, thanks) show the smaller kid the rewards of unwanted aggression.  I'm also an adult who realizes that what happened could've been really bad very easily.

But you don't seem to getting (at least not from your posting) is that IF it had gotten "really bad" -- it still would have been the fault of the bully -- NOT his victim.  But for the fact that he started this mess, he wouldn't have been hurt -- a little or "really bad".

You were lumped into that category, because you keep pointing out how it might have turned into the bullied kid's fault -- or at least that the reaction to being bullied was "too much".

So, come back and whine about being misunderstood -- but if you don't want to be misunderstood, then stop changing your story's meaning.

M
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: wolfter on March 19, 2011, 01:27:53 am
I shared this story with my brother who is my wall of reason.  He is a veteran of many conflicts.  He recently retired from the military after serving many tours.  I have a beutiful baby sister who in turmoil wainting for her husband to return from Afhanistan.   I guess we all kow the answers,  but his is the same type of behavior they are fighting to protect.  They absolutely agreed with what person felt he needed to do. 
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: mecch on March 19, 2011, 08:25:46 am
I dont think anyone said the bullied kid was wrong to respond.

I dont think anyone defended the bully.

I think a few people said that it wasn't the greatest response, or simply expressed fears that it could have gone really badly for the bullied kid, if the bully ended up with serious damage.

Its contradictory to say that the bullied kid had carte blanche - just by virtue of being bullied - but at the same time say that its wrong to argue boys will be boys. 

Some of you fail to consider that the question we are debating here is - what does each person feel is the proper response by a bullied person?   

The question to debate is NOT the personal character of each of the AIDSMEDS members.

The question to debate is only partially this circumstance, these two boys - because - as others have helpfully pointed out - we dont know the full story. 

So in a discussion of this type - the question moves to ones opinions on the topic in general, in society.

And I think there are people - in this forum for sure - who do really believe that an eye for eye is the only or best response to a bully.  Boys will be boys - i have seen it used here to say that is in fact the nature of the beast and people who feel bullied should buck up and grow thicker skin.

An eye for an eye - fire for fire - violence in response to violence - is NOT the only response, NOR is it always the best one.  It depends on the age of the people in conflict, the nature of the conflict, the personal needs and character of the people in conflict, and the setting.

The only comments that have come from the public or in this forum that have been at all questioning about this bullied kid was the QUALITY of his response, considering some of these circumstance.  Not his right to respond.  And not the wrongness of the bully.   

All you people suggesting otherwise are setting up STRAWDOG opponents for your personal agendas that have little to do with a lively debate on this topic.


Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: bocker3 on March 19, 2011, 09:09:40 am
I dont think anyone said the bullied kid was wrong to respond.

I dont think anyone defended the bully.

I think a few people said that it wasn't the greatest response, or simply expressed fears that it could have gone really badly for the bullied kid, if the bully ended up with serious damage.

Its contradictory to say that the bullied kid had carte blanche - just by virtue of being bullied - but at the same time say that its wrong to argue boys will be boys. 

Some of you fail to consider that the question we are debating here is - what does each person feel is the proper response by a bullied person?   

The question to debate is NOT the personal character of each of the AIDSMEDS members.

The question to debate is only partially this circumstance, these two boys - because - as others have helpfully pointed out - we dont know the full story. 

So in a discussion of this type - the question moves to ones opinions on the topic in general, in society.

And I think there are people - in this forum for sure - who do really believe that an eye for eye is the only or best response to a bully.  Boys will be boys - i have seen it used here to say that is in fact the nature of the beast and people who feel bullied should buck up and grow thicker skin.

An eye for an eye - fire for fire - violence in response to violence - is NOT the only response, NOR is it always the best one.  It depends on the age of the people in conflict, the nature of the conflict, the personal needs and character of the people in conflict, and the setting.

The only comments that have come from the public or in this forum that have been at all questioning about this bullied kid was the QUALITY of his response, considering some of these circumstance.  Not his right to respond.  And not the wrongness of the bully.   

All you people suggesting otherwise are setting up STRAWDOG opponents for your personal agendas that have little to do with a lively debate on this topic.




Bullshit!

You "cringed" when the bullied kid responded.  You showed empathy for the bully and went off on how the response was (or could have been) too much.  Bottomline, your post showed more concern for the bully than his victim.  I will repeat what I've said a couple of times -- if he hadn't attacked, he wouldn't have been responded to -- this was all about HIS actions.  You are suggesting that perhaps instead of striking back, he should have turned the other cheek?   
No weapons were involved -- but responses like yours do, in fact, give ammo to bullies to keep doing what they are doing.  If you can't see that, then I guess I am simply wasting my time here.  If you had been endlessly bullied at some point in your life -- perhaps you would have been able to show empathy to right person, but as you pointed out -- this didn't happen to you in any big way.
And.....  my only "agenda" is to end bullying.  What, pray tell, is yours??  We know from years of experience that ignoring a bully rarely does any good.

Mike
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: thunter34 on March 19, 2011, 09:56:47 am
The video has already been removed by the user, so I have no idea what all of you are carrying on like kids on a playground about.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: denb45 on March 19, 2011, 09:58:21 am
The video has already been removed by the user, so I have no idea what all of you are carrying on like kids on a playground about.

 ;) yup it's already old news  ;D
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: mecch on March 19, 2011, 10:11:21 am
Bullshit!

You "cringed" when the bullied kid responded.  You showed empathy for the bully and went off on how the response was (or could have been) too much.  Bottomline, your post showed more concern for the bully than his victim.  I will repeat what I've said a couple of times -- if he hadn't attacked, he wouldn't have been responded to -- this was all about HIS actions.  You are suggesting that perhaps instead of striking back, he should have turned the other cheek?    
No weapons were involved -- but responses like yours do, in fact, give ammo to bullies to keep doing what they are doing.  If you can't see that, then I guess I am simply wasting my time here.  If you had been endlessly bullied at some point in your life -- perhaps you would have been able to show empathy to right person, but as you pointed out -- this didn't happen to you in any big way.
And.....  my only "agenda" is to end bullying.  What, pray tell, is yours??  We know from years of experience that ignoring a bully rarely does any good.

Mike

I cringed because I was afraid the bully would get his neck or head cracked.  I explained that I saw this actually happen, when I was a kid.  I did not say the bully was right. I did not defend his bullying.  You are putting a spin on my response, exactly to set up some strawdog.

The kid got what was coming to him, I agree.  

It is often considered that the response to casual school yard bullying of a one off nature, is a swift effective response by the bullied.  I agree.

That said, it also considered by some parents, school boards, educators and psychologists that the response to a kid being singled out and bullied mercilessly may NOT be within the means of the kids themselves.  

I personally do not think violence is generally the answer for school kids though you have to put up and fend off attacks sometimes, clearly.

The observations change when we go into adolescence.  

From the little info given about this circumstance, which I read, before I saw the video in fact, that kid has been bullied a long time and needs ADULT intervention, IN ADDITION to getting his own response to his situation in order on his own terms.  

Local people objected to the violence of his response.  Nobody nobody defended the bully. Period. Nobody is defending the bully. Get it?  People are concerned that the bullied boy find a way out of a hellish situation - without making the situation worse for himself - because surely he's in hell if the bullying has gone on for years.  

Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: leese43 on March 19, 2011, 10:20:59 am
Bullshit!

You "cringed" when the bullied kid responded.  You showed empathy for the bully and went off on how the response was (or could have been) too much.  Bottomline, your post showed more concern for the bully than his victim.  I will repeat what I've said a couple of times -- if he hadn't attacked, he wouldn't have been responded to -- this was all about HIS actions.  You are suggesting that perhaps instead of striking back, he should have turned the other cheek?   
No weapons were involved -- but responses like yours do, in fact, give ammo to bullies to keep doing what they are doing.  If you can't see that, then I guess I am simply wasting my time here.  If you had been endlessly bullied at some point in your life -- perhaps you would have been able to show empathy to right person, but as you pointed out -- this didn't happen to you in any big way.
And.....  my only "agenda" is to end bullying.  What, pray tell, is yours??  We know from years of experience that ignoring a bully rarely does any good.

Mike

You are reading what Mecch and hellrider have been saying totally differently to how I have. The way I am reading it is that they are not saying the bullied boy is wrong but with the force he used he could have fractured the bully's skull rather than his leg or even worse killed him if his head had hit the ground a certain way. Now you may still want to say that the bully got what he deserved and you'd probably be right but what would have happened next, in this country anyway, is that the bullied child would have ended up in a detention centre seperated from his parents. I may be wrong but I think taht is what they are trying to get at.

I think sometimes a few people here don't want to hear what mecch and hell have to say just because it's them.

My take on it anyway.

Leese

Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: RapidRod on March 19, 2011, 06:17:53 pm
You are reading what Mecch and hellrider have been saying totally differently to how I have. The way I am reading it is that they are not saying the bullied boy is wrong but with the force he used he could have fractured the bully's skull rather than his leg or even worse killed him if his head had hit the ground a certain way. Now you may still want to say that the bully got what he deserved and you'd probably be right but what would have happened next, in this country anyway, is that the bullied child would have ended up in a detention centre seperated from his parents. I may be wrong but I think taht is what they are trying to get at.

I think sometimes a few people here don't want to hear what mecch and hell have to say just because it's them.

My take on it anyway.

Leese


Had his parents taught him to respect others, he wouldn't have got his ass thrown on the ground.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: bocker3 on March 19, 2011, 06:55:57 pm
I cringed because I was afraid the bully would get his neck or head cracked.  I explained that I saw this actually happen, when I was a kid.  I did not say the bully was right. I did not defend his bullying.  You are putting a spin on my response, exactly to set up some strawdog.

The kid got what was coming to him, I agree.  

It is often considered that the response to casual school yard bullying of a one off nature, is a swift effective response by the bullied.  I agree.

That said, it also considered by some parents, school boards, educators and psychologists that the response to a kid being singled out and bullied mercilessly may NOT be within the means of the kids themselves.  

I personally do not think violence is generally the answer for school kids though you have to put up and fend off attacks sometimes, clearly.

The observations change when we go into adolescence.  

From the little info given about this circumstance, which I read, before I saw the video in fact, that kid has been bullied a long time and needs ADULT intervention, IN ADDITION to getting his own response to his situation in order on his own terms.  

Local people objected to the violence of his response.  Nobody nobody defended the bully. Period. Nobody is defending the bully. Get it?  People are concerned that the bullied boy find a way out of a hellish situation - without making the situation worse for himself - because surely he's in hell if the bullying has gone on for years.  



You lost any credibility in this topic when you referred to the bullied kid as the "fat loser".  While mentioning your "cringe" because the bully might get hurt.

 ::)

Mike
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: skeebo1969 on March 19, 2011, 06:56:51 pm
Had his parents taught him to respect others, he wouldn't have got his ass thrown on the ground.

 LOL  I want to see the big kid's birth certificate.  He looks like he's big enough to go bear hunting with a switch.  You can tell size and rattlesnake like quickness makes for a lethal adversary.  PeeWee was severely outmatched and he sold checks he couldn't cash....

This episode will last the big guy through high school, trust me.  He is now known as one not to screw with.  Good for him.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: bocker3 on March 19, 2011, 07:02:32 pm
You are reading what Mecch and hellrider have been saying totally differently to how I have. The way I am reading it is that they are not saying the bullied boy is wrong but with the force he used he could have fractured the bully's skull rather than his leg or even worse killed him if his head had hit the ground a certain way. Now you may still want to say that the bully got what he deserved and you'd probably be right but what would have happened next, in this country anyway, is that the bullied child would have ended up in a detention centre seperated from his parents. I may be wrong but I think taht is what they are trying to get at.

I think sometimes a few people here don't want to hear what mecch and hell have to say just because it's them.

My take on it anyway.

Leese



Now, we could make up all sorts of scenarios on what "could have happened" -- to what avail.  The bully could have more seriously hurt his victim too -- no one has mentioned that, have they?  The bully could be causing life-long mental trauma to his victim -- but no one has mentioned that, have they?  Nope -- it's all about how much worse the bully might have been hurt -- and, in a small bit of concern to the victim, how that might have impacted him legally.  But is's all a case of could have, should have, would have.
 The most important "could have" scenario is that the bully could have simply NOT BULLIED anyone. 

It has nothing to do with Mecch or Hellraiser -- it has to do with their responses -- particularly Mecch's "fat loser" start to his contributions here.

Mike
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: thunter34 on March 19, 2011, 07:23:57 pm
were you a portly child, Mike?
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Joe K on March 19, 2011, 07:42:37 pm
were you a portly child, Mike?

Wow, was this really necessary?
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: thunter34 on March 19, 2011, 07:51:57 pm
Wow, was this really necessary?

I only asked because Mike made that comment about "particularly meech's fat loser" opening.

In all seriousness...I'm asking because I WAS a heavy kid.  I used to wear a heavy coat ALL school year long to try to hide it....rather unsuccessfully.  I'm way over sensitive about it.

My initial reaction was that he (Mike) might be way reactionary to that sort of thing, too.

Looking back at it, it probably came off entirely different than intended.

I'm just gonna step right back out of this thread and let these kids fight amongst themselves.  
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: fearless on March 19, 2011, 09:30:26 pm
Oh well, Casey has special half hour "A Current Affair" devoted to him tonight. He has had overwhelming public support over here for standing up for himself. The promo seems to be following this line.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Miss Philicia on March 19, 2011, 09:54:59 pm
I'm way over sensitive about it.

... ya don't say! (http://01.media.lifeout.com/000/112/510/images/1300578160-lg.jpg)
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: denb45 on March 19, 2011, 10:13:22 pm
... ya don't say! (http://01.media.lifeout.com/000/112/510/images/1300578160-lg.jpg)

WOOF TIM, oh my  ;D is that you?  ;D
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Miss Philicia on March 19, 2011, 11:48:01 pm
WOOF TIM, oh my  ;D is that you?  ;D

Oh, I know of a much more compromising picture floating around teh intratubz of Timberly.  I also have a really adorable one of Tim with CarolAnn.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Jeff G on March 20, 2011, 01:08:08 am
Oh, I know of a much more compromising picture floating around teh intratubz of Timberly.  I also have a really adorable one of Tim with CarolAnn.

I had no idea Tim was such a stud , very nice   ;D
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: woodshere on March 20, 2011, 01:17:34 am
I had no idea Tim was such a stud , very nice   ;D

I don't need Xtube tonight..... :D
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Jeff G on March 20, 2011, 01:28:35 am
I don't need Xtube tonight..... :D

Between you and me I think we can take him  ;)
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: woodshere on March 20, 2011, 01:34:55 am
Between you and me I think we can take him  ;)


Well to be honest don't think it would work out in real life, I think timtation and I look for much of the same thing...:)  I was just going to make believe...LOL
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: bocker3 on March 20, 2011, 10:36:44 am
I only asked because Mike made that comment about "particularly meech's fat loser" opening.

In all seriousness...I'm asking because I WAS a heavy kid.  I used to wear a heavy coat ALL school year long to try to hide it....rather unsuccessfully.  I'm way over sensitive about it.

My initial reaction was that he (Mike) might be way reactionary to that sort of thing, too.

Looking back at it, it probably came off entirely different than intended.

I'm just gonna step right back out of this thread and let these kids fight amongst themselves.  

Well, no, I wasn't really that "portly" as a child (although, I've never been svelte -- OK, perhaps at birth, as a 4.5 lb premmie) -- that all happened in adulthood.  ;)  BTW -- I hadn't read your initial post until after this one -- I get your intent -- no harm done.

As for my reaction to "fat loser" -- it was not so much about the name called, but the fact that he was referred to in a deragatory manner at all.

Mike
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: thunter34 on March 20, 2011, 10:47:11 am
Oh, I know of a much more compromising picture floating around teh intratubz of Timberly.  I also have a really adorable one of Tim with CarolAnn.


This is why I should stick with Foghorn Leghorn.  But then, in the case of having compromising pictures out there, I guess that ship sailed a long time ago.

I'm feeling bullied by Phillicia.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: denb45 on March 20, 2011, 11:08:42 am

This is why I should stick with Foghorn Leghorn.  But then, in the case of having compromising pictures out there, I guess that ship sailed a long time ago.

I'm feeling bullied by Phillicia.

Timothy  ;D you can send those compromising pictures out to me anytime you want to, I won't ask, and Certainly won't tell, I'm not that type of person who would do something like that to you, I do have some morals left  :D
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: leese43 on March 20, 2011, 04:40:29 pm
Had his parents taught him to respect others, he wouldn't have got his ass thrown on the ground.

I can only assume you didn't read what I wrote before you commented, if you had you would have seen that I never once said I felt bad for the bully.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: leese43 on March 20, 2011, 04:49:58 pm
Now, we could make up all sorts of scenarios on what "could have happened" -- to what avail.  The bully could have more seriously hurt his victim too -- no one has mentioned that, have they?  The bully could be causing life-long mental trauma to his victim -- but no one has mentioned that, have they?  Nope -- it's all about how much worse the bully might have been hurt -- and, in a small bit of concern to the victim, how that might have impacted him legally.  But is's all a case of could have, should have, would have.
 The most important "could have" scenario is that the bully could have simply NOT BULLIED anyone. 

It has nothing to do with Mecch or Hellraiser -- it has to do with their responses -- particularly Mecch's "fat loser" start to his contributions here.

Mike

Jesus, we all know that what the bully did was wrong, it goes without saying the distress and pain that he would have caused. I posted my comment because mecch or hellraiser (I'm not reading back) said that he now needs to learn about his own strength and to maybe learn how to use it without killing someone in future. FOR HIS OWN SAKE NOT THE BULLY'S.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: Hellraiser on March 21, 2011, 01:59:51 am
Jesus, we all know that what the bully did was wrong, it goes without saying the distress and pain that he would have caused. I posted my comment because mecch or hellraiser (I'm not reading back) said that he now needs to learn about his own strength and to maybe learn how to use it without killing someone in future. FOR HIS OWN SAKE NOT THE BULLY'S.

You got it right but there's no convincing him.  Mike, you may not notice it but you have a definite bias against certain people.  I know I rank highly on that list as does Mecch.  I'm not really sure why you feel this way but it's been obvious to me for a while now.
Title: Re: This is how you stop bullying
Post by: bocker3 on March 21, 2011, 07:30:50 am
You got it right but there's no convincing him.  Mike, you may not notice it but you have a definite bias against certain people.  I know I rank highly on that list as does Mecch.  I'm not really sure why you feel this way but it's been obvious to me for a while now.

Oh honey -- you give yourself far too much credit.  It's cute... but unwarranted.