POZ Community Forums

Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: tednlou2 on May 29, 2010, 03:23:46 am

Title: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: tednlou2 on May 29, 2010, 03:23:46 am
At first, this would seem like it should go in the "Off Topic" forum, and there is a thread there about Don't Ask.  However, I was saddened to hear that a group is trying to fan fears about gays in the military by using HIV.  I was offended by this and feel it could gain traction with republican congressmen--and some dems. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann#37389953
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on May 29, 2010, 03:30:07 am
You wanna be saddened? Do as I do. Subscribe to the daily email Loonycasts from the Family Research Council.

Yikes!

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Ann on May 29, 2010, 10:30:45 am
Keith Olbermann should be required viewing for every person living in America. He rocks.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on May 29, 2010, 11:38:45 am
Well, it was expected.  But there is a petition for "Don't Ask Don't Tell." 

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/repealdadt

During his State of the Union address, President Obama pledged to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Now, we have a chance to help make good on that promise.

The House of Representatives and the Senate Armed Services Committee have already voted in favor of repeal, and debate in the Senate will soon start. But some Republicans have already announced their plans to block the repeal.

We can defeat those who'd stand in the way of history. But we must show our senators that Americans -- in every state -- overwhelmingly support repeal.

Join the President's pledge to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" today
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: newt on May 29, 2010, 10:34:56 pm
Ahem, like some of them straight Navy boys aint got a whore in every port...hmmmm
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: mecch on May 30, 2010, 06:01:38 am
I thought all service men were routinely tested.
I thought HIV+ people can't join the services.
And that servicemen/women who serocovert during service are NOT discharged, but are removed from combat.

Also, it would be very brave indeed if the service actually published statistics about HIV infection in the current ranks.

So where is the threat?
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: bocker3 on May 30, 2010, 09:15:46 am
Well hell....

who knew that I was supposed to be going around fondling and fellating all these sleeping soldiers?  I wasted my time insuring my platoon of medics were able to treat any injured grunts from the battalion we supported.

don't know why anyone is expecting logic or facts to rule -- these folks don't care about facts -- they simply say whatever it takes to instill fear.

Mike
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on May 30, 2010, 03:53:23 pm
Well apparently all fags and dykes are deranged sociopathic killers. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGXHLVUNFKY)

For the record I have an injunction setting Godwin's Law aside for the purposes of this post.

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: tednlou2 on May 31, 2010, 12:14:05 am
Performing oral sex on a sleeping person?  Well, I know guys get several hard-ons while sleeping, but it would seem like you'd know someone was sucking you unless you were on Ambien or something.  Even then, it seems like you'd know. 

 
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Ravhyn on May 31, 2010, 04:01:38 am
I know with the army you are tested pre deployment and after a deployment for HIV.  If you test positive while in the service you are not discharged but you remain stateside for the rest of your time in and they basically give you a desk job. 

you can't join positive though, I know trust me I would be back in, in a heartbeat if they let HIV positive people in. 

Even my husband because I am positive is treated as a risk factor. He's been put in a job where he can't cut himself or anything and has to carry a first aid kit around in his trunk and be tested every three months because I am positive. 
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on May 31, 2010, 09:07:39 am
We have nothing to fear but fear itself.... Unless it's self-serving fear...  Their argument does not hold water.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 01, 2010, 07:38:53 pm
These are the same folks who rely on fear-tactics for everything they do - Is anyone really surprised? ???
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 02, 2010, 05:50:54 am
Only at how big a following they have.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: mecch on June 02, 2010, 08:18:49 am
Yes and Im certain the gulf oil spill is the responsibility of tina snorting HIV+ gays in the Mineral and Mines.

Damn those pozzies they are ruining the world.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 02, 2010, 01:27:56 pm
Yes and Im certain the gulf oil spill is the responsibility of tina snorting HIV+ gays in the Mineral and Mines.

Damn those pozzies they are ruining the world.

Don't worry, the talking-heads will ask James Cameron how to fix them..  ;D
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Moffie65 on June 02, 2010, 03:11:17 pm
What surprises me about this thread, is the number of people who are exressing surprise about this. 

We have fought hard and long to squash idiocy around HIV.  Ever since many of us died in the first onslaught in the late 1970's, we have had to fight for everything we have, including an intelligent approach to the pandemic.  We have lived through Reagan, Bush #1, Clinton being severely curtailed during his 8 years, and then the prize, The Weed/Cheney.  Every adminstration since the beginning has dragged their feet about HIV and its impact on this country, and now this. 

Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.  No accomplishments around the curbing of the pandemic, nor any policy decisions have been accomplished without the ACTIVE participation of HIV+s, so now it is you younger people's turn.  Get busy.

Tim
U.S. Army Veteran.
Viet Nam Era.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 02, 2010, 04:44:02 pm
Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  I would just like to see it happen and see if the military will fall apart or just learn to cope with a population that have the govt backing. As a former sailor, if I had to worry about someone sucking my dick while I was asleep, not that I wouldn't want this, I would wear an alarm or tighter underwear to prevent it.  I believe the only thing stopping the Openly Gay policy is fear of the unknown or fear that enlistment will drop. Or it's a matter of pride to protect what has always been a bias policy against a certain group or people. However, we must fight for "Let our right to join and serve ring out. And when this happens, and when we get our pride and our respect, when we let it ring from every village and every town, from every state and every city, and from Continent to Continent we will be able to see the day when all human kind, gays and straights , Bis and Transvestites , Queers and Steers, will be able to join hands and yell in the words of the what has to be: "Free to join! Free to serve for the military as we are! It's about time but, we are getting our right to be counted as a real member of this society!"
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 02, 2010, 04:47:58 pm
Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  I would just like to see it happen and see if the military will fall apart or just learn to cope with a population that have the govt backing.  As a former sailor, if I had to worry about someone sucking my dick while I was asleep, not that i wouldn't want that, I would wear an alarm or tighter underwear to prevent it.  I believe the only thing stopping the Openly Gay policy is fear of the unknown or fear that enlistment will drop.  Or it's a matter of pride to protect what has always been.  However, we must fight for "Let freedom ring. And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring?when we let it ring from every village and every town, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all human kind?gay men and stright men, Bis and Transvitites , Queers and Steers?will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the what has to be: "Free to join! Free to serve for the military as we are! It's about time but, we are getting our right to be counted as a real member of this society!"

I seriously doubt anyone would WANT to suck you off, asleep or not.
 ::)

Apparently, you are one of those heterosexuals that think all homosexuals are rapists.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 02, 2010, 04:52:00 pm
I seriously doubt anyone would WANT to suck you off, asleep or not.
 ::)

Apparently, you are one of those heterosexuals that think all homosexuals are rapists.
Not hetero, Homo, and I was just pointing out what they will say to keep Gays out of the military.  

P.S. I have been.   ;)
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 02, 2010, 04:57:49 pm
Not hetero, Homo, and I was just pointing out what they will say to keep Gays out of the military.  

P.S. I have been.   ;)

Ah, sorry didn't recognize the sarcasm... Should have!
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 02, 2010, 05:15:27 pm
Ah, sorry didn't recognize the sarcasm... Should have!

No Problem...
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Ann on June 03, 2010, 08:45:11 am

Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.



Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.



Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.


Thanks, Moff, well worth repeating.


Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  I would just like to see it happen and see if the military will fall apart or just learn to cope with a population that have the govt backing.


Eh? I hope you were being "sarcastic" here too. Gay men have served in the military since ... year dot ... and the military hasn't fallen apart. If gay men - and women - can be open about who they are, it's only going to strengthen  the military and it's about high time people realised that. It's a no-brainer - well, when you have some brains in the first place, I guess. :o
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Hellraiser on June 03, 2010, 09:13:37 am
I personally know so many gay men in the military that I sometimes wonder how many straight people actually serve anymore.  DADT is a joke of epic proportions.  I'm a little confused as to why HIV is something that can keep you out of the military, do they similarly disqualify diabetics?  I honestly don't know the answer to that question as the military never really appealed to me due to my very anti-authoritarian nature.

Anyway, I think DADT will be gone this year or the next.

PS:  I promise if the draft were reinstated they wouldn't use homosexuality as a disqualifier because every guy who wanted out would just say they were gay.  I was just WAITING for the bush administration to start drafting for the Iraq and Afghan wars just to see that particular turn of play.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 03, 2010, 11:07:59 am
PS:  I promise if the draft were reinstated they wouldn't use homosexuality as a disqualifier because every guy who wanted out would just say they were gay.  I was just WAITING for the bush administration to start drafting for the Iraq and Afghan wars just to see that particular turn of play.

There was an old joke (I'm horrible at telling jokes, so if anyone else has heard this..): One day a young man was drafted into the war. He really didn't want to go, so when he reported to the office he told the lead officer during the physical examination that he was gay, a pacifist and flat-footed. "So am I. Unfortunately for both of us that doesn't work during the draft - NEXT!" :)
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 03, 2010, 02:16:49 pm
Thanks, Moff, well worth repeating.

Eh? I hope you were being "sarcastic" here too. Gay men have served in the military since ... year dot ... and the military hasn't fallen apart. If gay men - and women - can be open about who they are, it's only going to strengthen  the military and it's about high time people realised that. It's a no-brainer - well, when you have some brains in the first place, I guess. :o
Sorry I meant Openly Gay...  Does the British or Australian Military have openingly recurits?
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 04, 2010, 07:14:59 am
http://my.barackobama.com/RepealDADT-share

During his State of the Union address, President Obama pledged to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Now, we have a chance to help make good on that promise.

The House of Representatives and the Senate Armed Services Committee have already voted in favor of repeal, and debate in the Senate will soon start. But some Republicans have already announced their plans to block the repeal.

We can defeat those who'd stand in the way of history. But we must show our senators that Americans -- in every state -- overwhelmingly support repeal.

Join the President's pledge to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" today.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Ann on June 04, 2010, 07:42:01 am

Does the British or Australian Military have openingly recurits?


Like the U.S. military, the British Services is an all-volunteer force comprised of army, air force and navy contingents. Until January, 2000, when Britain lifted its gay ban following a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights, gay and lesbian soldiers were prohibited from serving in the British Armed Forces.

The first ten months of the new policy have been an unqualified success. The military's own classified, internal assessment at six months found that the new policy has "been hailed as a solid achievement" (Ministry of Defense, 2000e, p. 2). There have been no indications of negative effects on recruiting levels. No mass resignations have occurred. There have been no major reported cases of gay-bashing or harassment of sexual minorities. There have been no major reported cases of harassment or inappropriate behavior by gay or lesbian soldiers. There has been no perceived effect on morale, unit cohesion or operational effectiveness. The policy change has been characterized by a "marked lack of reaction" (Ministry of Defense, 2000e, p. 2).  read more (http://www.palmcenter.org/publications/dadt/british_soldier_motivation)

From a year ago at Queerty (http://www.queerty.com/while-america-fires-its-gay-soldiers-australia-has-concerns-about-their-well-being-20090609/)...

Just to keep you up to date on how antiquated America's Don't Ask Don't Tell law is, not only do other nations like Germany, Israel, Argentina, and the United Kingdom  allow gays to serve their countries openly, but at least one is going the extra step to make them feel utterly at home.  The Australian Defence Force is pushing forward a two-day conference focusing on the needs of sexual minorities serving in the military. Now that "equality" is, like, just a passe topic with gays there serving openly, the conference will focus on health, family, and well-being. Really, well-being! Can you imagine America's armed forces caring about the well-being of its GLBT soldiers? Conservatives would just call that "babying."


There's a lot of info on DADT as well as GLBTs in the military in general at The Palm Center (http://www.palmcenter.org/)

Ann
(Who wonders if only Philly and she have interwebbie machines that can access Google)
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: mecch on June 04, 2010, 08:08:22 am
Seems to be a minority that has too much power. I bet then percentage of people actively against gays in the military is low.  I bet most military officers don't see DADT as justified. I think most senators are playing politics and they don't give a crap whatsoever about the military and would perfer their children not serve.

The point of civil rights LEGISLATION is to legislate civil rights and then let the society figure out how to deal with the new reality.  I bet most women in the military have no problem with gays/lesbians in the military. For the male soldiers it might bug, they can roll their eyes and shut the fuck up which they will do because its more important to follow military codes than to act in ways against it.  End of story. Let the few remaining senators and generals shit their panties in silence, and forget about them.  Before long one of their ranks will be gay or lesbian and TOUGH SHIT on them.

If anyone had a personal problem reported to Gen Colin Powell they kept their small minded traps shut.

Pity that the USA is supposed to be global superpower but the military lacks the balls to take homos in stride. Germany, Israel and the UK are all known for fierce ballsy armed forces so the US should stop being such a Mary about Marys
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on June 04, 2010, 09:07:42 am
Sorry I meant Openly Gay...  Does the British or Australian Military have openingly recurits?

The ban on queers in the Australian military was lifted in 1993. I was involved in the campaign.

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Hellraiser on June 04, 2010, 10:37:33 am
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Moffie65 on June 04, 2010, 01:09:52 pm
Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  

Oh dear, I realize you are Gay, but where the hell did this thought train come from.

It was 1968, and I was assigned to an Electronic Maintenance group near Stuttgart, Germany.  I was mostly out in that everyone in the company knew for sure that I was indeed one of the Gays in the group.  One Saturday morning the company commander, an Attorney from South Dakota, sat down to have breakfast with me, and in a meeting in his office after we were done; asked me to council one of the troops, a Native American from New Mexico, about his penchant for sneaking up on some of the personnel in their sleep and sucking them off.  One of the more inflexible troops, sort of like you Dragon, complained and filed a formal complaint against him.  A formal complaint made it very difficult for the commanding officer because he knew that it would be the end of the line, and career for this poor Indian who had showed pretty bad judgement.  The commander also knew that the guy was a very important person in the Navajo tribe and it would also be really bad for him when the news got back to New Mexico. 

So, I sat down with the Indian man and told him that if he was indeed horny that he could suck the dicks of any number of the Gays in the company, or a few of the straights who enjoyed it.  Gave him a list of names to boot.  He insisted that this particular man was the only one that turned him on, to which I explained the background of my request and that the C.O. had been the one who was more concerned about him that he seemed to be.   Then I went to the guy and pled with him to drop the formal complaint, and let him know it would be the destruction of a life.  Then I reminded him of all the times he had audibly, or out loud, very loud, complained that there was nobody in Germany to suck his dick.  I told him that next time he should just roll over and enjoy it, damn it.  He relented and said quietly that the Indian was in fact a really good blow, to which I became totally nauseated.  His ego was the only thing in danger of being hurt here. 

Later that year, many of us Gays were given private rooms on the top floor, where we were allowed to have refrigerators, and set up our rooms as we liked, while the straights who were with us there, were so accommodating and welcomed the openness of the top floor.  It became legendary.

All of this happened during the "reign" of General Westmoreland, who also allowed us to grow mustaches and have hair that was 1/2 inch long down to our necks. 

Look all of you, you need to study some history here, because Gay people have always been in the Military, and there isn't a General alive that would request a Straight assistant over a Gay one.  Them are the facts, and the hatred of the present day is the result of the Nixon and Reagan era, where Gays were flexing our wings and we were easy targets of hatred for their base, and they were not afraid to make as much hay about it as possible. 

Why the fuck do any of you pay taxes to a country that has hated and discriminated, not based on the Constitution?  I know, you all say you are powerless and must pay your taxes.  I know of many Gay people who haven't paid taxes to the Government since Nixon, so there!! 

I don't know why any of you would even think thoughts that would feed and sustain a country that hates your ass, and keeps you from enjoying the full freedoms guaranteed in the beginning of our history. 

Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: tednlou2 on June 05, 2010, 01:27:35 am
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?

I always find that repubs are skitzo.  They talk about freedom and the gov't staying out of our lives.  Yet, they want to be in our lives the most.  Most of them hated when the Supreme Court ruled the laws about anal sex were unconstitional.  Reagan ran up the debt more than all other presidents combined.  We know how Dubya doubled the debt.  Clinton had balanced the budget and was paying down the debt.  He left a huge surplus.

So, I don't know what the repubs actually stand for these days.  I think they are all like Sarah--just catch phrases and slogans.  No substance.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Miss Philicia on June 05, 2010, 01:50:47 am
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?

Or race -- ref "raghead" comments in South Carolina against Halley
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Dachshund on June 05, 2010, 07:04:43 am
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?

Dear, you're only fiscally conservate if it pertains to others. If it pertains to you, not so much. Sorta like a tea bagger.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: mecch on June 05, 2010, 07:59:35 am
The soldiers campy YouTube videos only prove the point:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/opinion/05blow.html?hp
Gay? Whatever, Dude
By CHARLES M. BLOW
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 05, 2010, 10:01:08 am
Oh dear, I realize you are Gay, but where the hell did this thought train come from.


My thought process came from seeing military doing everything they Can to hurt, humiliate, and fuck over anyone who was considered gay.  There was one male couple who were caught having sex on the USS Kitty Hawk.  Once they were let out of the brig, they we isolated from all contact from fellow sailors for fear of association, until they were allowed off the ship and kick-out of the Navy.  This was probably supported and enforced by the Command.  It is not my personal belief that there can't be Openly Gay men in the Military, I hope it will happen but when I was there in 1980, there was a strong bias against anyone looking, acting, or suspected of being gay.  I myself was suspected to be gay and was ostracised by fellow sailors for a short time.  But if what happend in the other contries are true, then I have hope that one day DADT will become a thing of the dismal past.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Ann on June 05, 2010, 10:15:28 am

when I was there in 1980, there was a strong bias against anyone looking, acting, or suspected of being gay. 


Well yeah, because if a person was gay, they'd be kicked out. If one could be openly gay with no such repercussions, the "strong bias" would end. See how that works?
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 05, 2010, 11:03:58 am
I always find that repubs are skitzo.  They talk about freedom and the gov't staying out of our lives.  Yet, they want to be in our lives the most.  Most of them hated when the Supreme Court ruled the laws about anal sex were unconstitional.  Reagan ran up the debt more than all other presidents combined.  We know how Dubya doubled the debt.  Clinton had balanced the budget and was paying down the debt.  He left a huge surplus.So, I don't know what the repubs actually stand for these days.  I think they are all like Sarah--just catch phrases and slogans.  No substance.

Same thing with big business - they claim they stand for individual freedom, yet they vote in the direction of corporations.... Over individual people. Places like Mossville, LA, are a direct result of Republicans voting for big-business over individual rights. They're rhetoric doesn't stand-up when it come to lobbyists' payoffs.
 :-[
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Hellraiser on June 05, 2010, 04:00:45 pm
Dear, you're only fiscally conservate if it pertains to others. If it pertains to you, not so much. Sorta like a tea bagger.

What a nasty baseless accusation to make.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 06, 2010, 08:55:31 am
Well yeah, because if a person was gay, they'd be kicked out. If one could be openly gay with no such repercussions, the "strong bias" would end. See how that works?
Sweetheart, Back then there was no DADT.  Actually, expect if caught in the act, the Navy didn't do much.  You just got harassed, or ignored by fellow sailors.  And you'd make your own friends with people you trusted and liked you.  But I wish I was in the Navy if that "Strong Bias" did not exist.  I would of had a great sex life in there.  I mean it would have been an orgy every weekend, if not everyday.  A man in CrackerJacks is a turn on for me.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Ann on June 06, 2010, 09:01:53 am

Sweetheart


Darling, I'm no sweetheart. ;)
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 06, 2010, 09:11:34 am
There was an old joke (I'm horrible at telling jokes, so if anyone else has heard this..): One day a young man was drafted into the war. He really didn't want to go, so when he reported to the office he told the lead officer during the physical examination that he was gay, a pacifist and flat-footed. "So am I. Unfortunately for both of us that doesn't work during the draft - NEXT!" :)
There was another old joke in 1981 told to me by a Chief Petty Officer in the Navy where a Sailor wanted out of the Navy and decided to tell the Navy Commander in charge that he was gay.  The Commander said "OK," and asked the sailor to drop his pants and turn around.  The sailor did as ordered.  At this time the Commander just watched the sailor ass.  The Sailor got nervous, pulled up his pants and left the office.  This was, and it was before DADT, to let us Sailors know that saying you're Gay is not the way to get out of the Navy, for the Commander or whom ever will embarrass you and may fuck your ass.  But I always wonder what if they did fucked and enjoyed it.  It sounded more like and incentive to me.  lol
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 06, 2010, 09:15:11 am
Darling, I'm no sweetheart. ;)
OK Beautiful   ;)
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Ann on June 06, 2010, 09:37:28 am

OK Beautiful   ;)


That's better, handsome. ;D
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Hellraiser on June 06, 2010, 09:40:04 am
Darling, I'm no sweetheart. ;)

Well now you're just wrong
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Ann on June 06, 2010, 09:50:38 am


Well now you're just wrong


Yeah, well, it happens on the rare occasion.  :-\


It's my understanding that navies around the world have had a long-standing "tradition" of men having sex with each other aboard ship, even men who would otherwise have sex with women while ashore. Something not much talked about though, and dealt with by not so much a DADT-type policy, but rather a "look the other way" policy. Am I mistaken? Hope not, don't want to be wrong twice on one day - that would set a record. ;D


Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: mecch on June 06, 2010, 12:34:39 pm
Guess you know Paul Cadmus's famous canvas:  The Fleet's In

(http://militarytimes.com/blogs/scoopdeck/files/2009/09/the-fleets-in.jpg)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cadmus

In 1934 he painted The Fleet's In! while working for the Public Works of Art Project of the WPA. This painting, featuring carousing sailors, women, and a homosexual couple, was the subject of a public outcry and was removed from exhibition at the Corcoran Gallery. The publicity helped to launch his career. He worked in commercial illustration as well, but Jared French, another tempera artist who befriended him and became his lover for a time, convinced him to devote himself completely to fine art.[1]


THE PAINTING IS ON DISPLAY IN THE NATIONAL NAVY ART GALLERY - so yeah it seems no big deal as long as it isn't publically a big deal, as it is these days, because we have to dismantle DADT.  Well, you have to break some eggs to make an omelete. Can't happen fast enough.  
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 08, 2010, 08:36:08 am
1,000,000 Strong for Repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT)
http://www.facebook.com/Citizens4RepealDADT?ref=search&v=wall#!
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 09, 2010, 05:25:54 pm
Guess you know Paul Cadmus's famous canvas:  The Fleet's In

(http://militarytimes.com/blogs/scoopdeck/files/2009/09/the-fleets-in.jpg)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cadmus

In 1934 he painted The Fleet's In! while working for the Public Works of Art Project of the WPA. This painting, featuring carousing sailors, women, and a homosexual couple, was the subject of a public outcry and was removed from exhibition at the Corcoran Gallery. The publicity helped to launch his career. He worked in commercial illustration as well, but Jared French, another tempera artist who befriended him and became his lover for a time, convinced him to devote himself completely to fine art.[1]


THE PAINTING IS ON DISPLAY IN THE NATIONAL NAVY ART GALLERY - so yeah it seems no big deal as long as it isn't publically a big deal, as it is these days, because we have to dismantle DADT.  Well, you have to break some eggs to make an omelete. Can't happen fast enough.  
Nice Painting...  Ahh the good old days.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 09, 2010, 05:46:18 pm
Nice Painting...  Ahh the good old days.

I personally feel things have gotten MORE conservative and backwards... :-\
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on June 09, 2010, 05:47:21 pm
I personally feel things have gotten MORE conservative and backwards... :-\

Than in the 1930s?

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 09, 2010, 06:19:00 pm
Than in the 1930s?


Well, let's see - up until 1937 pot was legal... Homosexuality was mostly overlooked and no big deal.. Yeah, I'd say so.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on June 09, 2010, 06:30:32 pm
Well, let's see - up until 1937 pot was legal... Homosexuality was mostly overlooked and no big deal.. Yeah, I'd say so.

Ok pot being legal I can dig, but I think you need to back up the assertion "homosexuality was mostly overlooked and no big deal" with some evidence.

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 09, 2010, 06:31:31 pm
Ok pot being legal I can dig, but I think you need to back up the assertion "homosexuality was mostly overlooked and no big deal" with some evidence.


Such as?
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on June 09, 2010, 07:35:52 pm
Such as?

I dunno boy. You're making the assertion, the onus of proof rests with you.

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 09, 2010, 07:39:47 pm
I dunno boy. You're making the assertion, the onus of proof rests with you.

Understood, but what do you consider "proof"?
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on June 09, 2010, 07:47:01 pm
Understood, but what do you consider "proof"?

Something must have made you draw the conclusion that "homosexuality was mostly overlooked and no big deal" in the 1930s.

What was that something?

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 09, 2010, 07:51:00 pm
Something must have made you draw the conclusion that "homosexuality was mostly overlooked and no big deal" in the 1930s.

What was that something?

Well, I have heard several military guys state that up until DADT and all of the fervor raised over it that homosexuality in the military was not a big deal at all - and know of 2 friends of my father that were homosexual and grew-up in the same time period (he was born in 1937 also)... And it simply wasn't publicly discussed one way or the other, for or against.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: mecch on June 10, 2010, 04:35:05 am
I personally feel things have gotten MORE conservative and backwards... :-\

I am convinced that is NOT TRUE.  There has been so much progress for the civil rights of Gays and Lesbians (and everything inbetween homo and hetero and male and female).

However we live in a very mediated age where its easy for the minority on any side of an issue to make themselves heard. And its much easier to engage in depate - the Internet is a 24/7 soapbox. That doesn't mean people go about their days 24/7 explicitly fighting political and cultural battles.

Since civil rights for gays are going forward at a steady clip, there is bound to be, in this media age, a large display of all the ways people are uncomfortable having to adjust their worldviews. 

Pleasantly, I find the younger generation has plenty of chilled-out souls without any feelings of disgust or threat about gay/lesbians issues. 

I don't see the situation as ideal or close to resolution, I dont have rose coloured glasses, but I do feel like there is steady progress.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 10, 2010, 09:39:42 am
Well, I have heard several military guys state that up until DADT and all of the fervor raised over it that homosexuality in the military was not a big deal at all - and know of 2 friends of my father that were homosexual and grew-up in the same time period (he was born in 1937 also)... And it simply wasn't publicly discussed one way or the other, for or against.
Well, let's not forget Oscar Wilde, the famous author.  In his time, being Gay was a crime and one could be sent to jail, which is no picnic.  I like to think of the good old days also, but let's not forget of the social, economical, gender, race, creed and color issues.  It is not like the movies or plays my dear.  If you lived in those times, you may find yourself downtrodden or invisible.  Depending on what social status and country you were born into, life was either a bowl of cherries or definitely not a bed of roses.  Although, it must be said that much has changed, some for the better and some for the worst.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: GSOgymrat on June 10, 2010, 10:35:23 am
Well, I have heard several military guys state that up until DADT and all of the fervor raised over it that homosexuality in the military was not a big deal at all - and know of 2 friends of my father that were homosexual and grew-up in the same time period (he was born in 1937 also)... And it simply wasn't publicly discussed one way or the other, for or against.

Homosexuality was both illegal and classified as a mental illness during that time.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 10, 2010, 11:55:22 am
Well, let's not forget Oscar Wilde, the famous author.  In his time, being Gay was a crime and one could be sent to jail, which is no picnic.

Oscar Wilde was also a pedophile that liked 12-year-old boys....
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on June 10, 2010, 04:20:04 pm
Oscar Wilde was also a pedophile that liked 12-year-old boys....


::)

Again evidence? And this time it better be something more than what your Pa told you when you was a young 'un in Crow's Ass Indiana.

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 10, 2010, 05:30:37 pm
::)

Again evidence? And this time it better be something more than what your Pa told you when you was a young 'un in Crow's Ass Indiana.

MtD

Um, duh... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Wilde

He hung-out with a child ("Bosie" aka little Lord Douglas), introduced him to what is now called "rent-boys" and is also believed to have sodomized him & participated in orgies with him.

Got that, "city-slicker"? Even us "dumb hicks from Indiana" know that isn't right...
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Andy Velez on June 10, 2010, 05:55:54 pm
Peeps, please lower the heat level some before it gets problematic in here.

Thanks for your cooperation.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on June 10, 2010, 07:05:25 pm
Um, duh... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Wilde

He hung-out with a child ("Bosie" aka little Lord Douglas), introduced him to what is now called "rent-boys" and is also believed to have sodomized him & participated in orgies with him.

Got that, "city-slicker"? Even us "dumb hicks from Indiana" know that isn't right...

I meant to respond to this earlier, but I was busy taking a shit.

Oscar met Alfred, Lord Douglas (aka Bosie) in Chelsea when Bosie was 22 years old. Oscar was 15 years his elder and they commenced a life long relationship. The sexual aspect of that relationship soon ended as they both preferred young working class men (stablehands, grooms etc).

They certainly did indulge in orgies and employ male prostitutes, who in England are commonly known as "rent boys". The term "rent boy" does not refer to prepubescent youths, as you erroneously assume.

Moreover Oscar had two sons with his wife Constance. Cyril (1885-1915) and Vyvyan (1886-1967) He was a doting and attentive father who adored both his boys.

Your assertion that Oscar was a child molestor is as obnoxious as it is ignorant.

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Rev. Moon on June 10, 2010, 07:24:42 pm
Oscar Wilde was also a pedophile that liked 12-year-old boys....


that is some bullshit.  Evidently you have not read 'De Profundis.'

Can you learn your history before posting such absurdities?
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: skeebo1969 on June 10, 2010, 07:41:58 pm



   I think this is what JAWS would be like if it had bears in it. 
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 11, 2010, 12:33:32 am
They certainly did indulge in orgies and employ male prostitutes, who in England are commonly known as "rent boys". The term "rent boy" does not refer to prepubescent youths, as you erroneously assume.

Allegations during the trial for the sodomy charges stated many of them WERE underage.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 11, 2010, 12:34:02 am
that is some bullshit.  Evidently you have not read 'De Profundis.'

Wilde's version.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on June 11, 2010, 01:03:16 am
Allegations during the trial for the sodomy charges stated many of them WERE underage.

Produce some fucking evidence to substantiate that claim otherwise you're just embarrassing yourself.

Sodomy with any male in 19th century England was an offence, thus there was no age of consent for homosexual behaviour. Homosexual behaviour amongst men was an offence no matter what the ages of the participants.

In fact Oscar was prosecuted for "gross indency with other male persons" - charges which arose from his failed suit for criminal libel against Bosie's father, the Marquess of Queensbury. Queensbury produced evidence of Wilde's homosexual dealings with other men and the suit collapsed.

But please, produce evidence of Oscar's alleged pedophilia. Names of the boys and their ages. If you can't do so then you should desist.

Wilde's version.

Of course it's Oscar's version. He wrote the fucking thing.

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 11, 2010, 05:57:06 am
 ???  How did this thread get so off track?  If you guys want to dish it out and spam eachother, make another thread or get married or something.   :D
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 11, 2010, 06:33:07 pm
???  How did this thread get so off track?  If you guys want to dish it out and spam eachother, make another thread or get married or something.   :D

Agreed... His fan-club is going to refute any charges ever made against him, and accept no evidence that doesn't come from Oscar himself.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on June 11, 2010, 06:38:01 pm
Agreed... His fan-club is going to refute any charges ever made against him, and accept no evidence that doesn't come from Oscar himself.


You haven't presented any evidence, boy. You might wanna git yerself some more of that book learnin' afore you shoot yer piehole off in future.

;)

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 11, 2010, 06:42:33 pm
You haven't presented any evidence, boy. You might wanna git yerself some more of that book learnin' afore you shoot yer piehole off in future.

;)

MtD

Yessa, massa, youse issa right... All of ussa people notta from you city izza rednecks...  ::)

You have yet to show any evidence that his tricks weren't underage either - and that is the first time I have ever heard he met met "Bosie" at 22, not the age that Lord Douglas' father stated at all.. It's become kind of a pointless discussion on both sides. You believe the evidence you choose to believe and I believe the evidence I choose to believe.
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on June 11, 2010, 06:50:50 pm
Yessa, massa, youse issa right... All of ussa people notta from you city izza rednecks...  ::)

You have yet to show any evidence that his tricks weren't underage either - and that is the first time I have ever heard he met met "Bosie" at 22, not the age that Lord Douglas' father stated at all.. It's become kind of a pointless discussion on both sides.

I don't have to show you a fucking thing. You asserted that Oscar was a kiddy fiddler and have failed to provide a single fucking iota of evidence to back it up.

Everything I've stated regarding Oscar in this thread I know to be a stone cold motherfucking fact. Don't believe me? Google what I've said. See if I'm wrong. I'll suck William Shatner's dick before an audience of rattlesnake handling pentecostal Christians if I am.

And for the record I relied on sources other than the Wiki.

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: blackwingbear on June 11, 2010, 06:57:02 pm
I don't have to show you a fucking thing.
Everything I've stated regarding Oscar in this thread I know to be a stone cold motherfucking fact. Don't believe me? Google what I've said. See if I'm wrong. I'll suck William Shatner's dick before an audience of rattlesnake handling pentecostal Christians if I am.And for the record I relied on sources other than the Wiki.

MtD

Oh, you were there? You know it to be fact firsthand?
And what would those sources be, other than Oscar's works?
 ::)
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: Matty the Damned on June 11, 2010, 07:25:11 pm
Oh, you were there? You know it to be fact firsthand?
And what would those sources be, other than Oscar's works?
 ::)

(http://tool.shagnasty.net/wiki/images/3/36/N23401424_40149210_5798.jpg)

MtD
Title: Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
Post by: red_Dragon888 on June 12, 2010, 05:17:54 am
less hate please unless you want this thread to be close by the "Powers That Be."