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Author Topic: Finger Cut And Unprotected Oral Sex Theory  (Read 3103 times)

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Offline alphalau

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Finger Cut And Unprotected Oral Sex Theory
« on: April 24, 2014, 02:09:51 am »
i have read a lot of articles and i understand the risks involved but i am a bit confused of the actual theory, i hope my queries will be answered.

scenario: i touched/licked the sex worker's clitoris/wall of vaginal (outside only) i had a small cut on my finger due to dry skin. no blood was actively flowing. i did feel a sudden sensational pain when the fluid made contact with my finger at a point of time. i mean when i wash my finger with water, i also feel the pain because it's not fully healed. after that incident, i tried to squeeze read hard and manage to force a tiny bit of blood out. here are my questions.

1) base on theory, would the hiv already be 'dead' since it's already 'outside the body'?

2) can hiv be transmitted via different channel such as vaginal fluid to blood? or must it be blood to blood?

3) there are so many different questions/answers on whether hiv can be transmitted via oral sex. assuming that the answer is yes, that hiv can be transmitted via oral sex. how is it being transferred in reality? lets say the hiv virus is not 'dead' outside the wall of vaginal, how can hiv be transmitted through my mouth? via open cut or sore in my mouth? if this sentence is true, that should answer my 2nd question that hiv in vaginal fluid can be transmitted via blood? and so if i am sure that my mouth/gum is healthy without and bleeding or sore, can i say that there is no way that hiv can be transmitted via oral sex (especially only outside wall of the vaginal/clitoris?

i am really very curious on these questions. i thank you for your time to read and hopefully reply.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Finger Cut And Unprotected Oral Sex Theory
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2014, 08:31:01 am »
Alpha,

Have you had a risk of exposure?  This forum is to discuss actual risks and not for a general discussion of possible risk scenarios.  Our lessons contain plenty of information on the risks of HIV infection.

The risk factors for HIV are ...

Sharing IV drug needles immediately after use.
Unprotected anal and vaginal sex.
Mother to child during or shortly after birth.
Very specific healthcare situations.

Use condoms for vaginal and anal sex consistently and correctly and you will avoid HIV infection, it is that simple.

Joe

Offline alphalau

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Re: Finger Cut And Unprotected Oral Sex Theory
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2014, 11:10:35 am »
Hi Joe,

Thanks for the reply. Yes I gave a masseuse unprotected oral sex as well as touched her clitoris with cut on my finger as described. I have read the replies from this forum and I know you will say unprotected oral sex and fingering even with cut is not at risk. However, there are so many sites that state that these 2 activities are at risk. I am really curious why do admin/moderators from this forum will say that unprotected oral sex (giving) and touching or vaginal fluid with cut on finger is not at risk? I know the only way to know is to get tested however I am only into the 2nd week of exposure and I need to wait for another 2 weeks for the 4th gen combo test. As of now, I am worried though I know that your reply will still state that I am not as risk. I am starting to get neck/head ache and sore throat and I seldom fall sick, so I don't know if it's early hiv symptom. i would appreciate if you could answer all my 3 questions in my first post. thanks for your time.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Finger Cut And Unprotected Oral Sex Theory
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2014, 11:20:31 am »
We rely on the peer reviewed science to base our assessments on . We do not get bogged down addressing what other sources have to say on the matter . If you want to know why they differ ask them .

Our assessments do not take the place of common sense testing and sexual health care checkups and that is why we advise the following . 

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv. Some of the other STIs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

There are no short cuts to hiv testing ... all we can do is give you the facts and we have done that . If you are uneasy then you can test for peace of mind at 6 weeks and again to confirm the results . If what we have provided does not ease your anxiety there is little more we can do .
HIV 101 - Basics
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You can read more about Transmission and Risks here:
HIV Transmission and Risks
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You can read more about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read more about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
You can read more about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

Offline alphalau

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Re: Finger Cut And Unprotected Oral Sex Theory
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2014, 12:23:59 pm »
I am not worried about other exposure because I am not sexually active and even if I do I always asked for protected blow job. I am only worried about this particular exposure that I don't know why I performed oral sex in her (only the wall of vaginal) and touch her wall of vaginal. I didn't know I had a cut until I feel the sensational feeling  that the fluid actual made contact with the unhealed wound. It wasn't actively bleeding though. How risky am I am? I am really worried because of my stupid act. Is 4th gen combo test only conclusive at the 6th weeks? My local clinic said it's conclusive on the 4th week. again which source is reliable? I am having headache, backache and neckache now and a out a week ago I had rashes on my penis head. I am so worried as it seem like early hiv symptoms. please advise.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Finger Cut And Unprotected Oral Sex Theory
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2014, 12:38:56 pm »
You did not have a risk for HIV .

There have been no fewer than three separate serodiscordant couples studies (where one person is HIV positive, the other negative.) These couples were tracked for three. five and ten years. The couples used condoms for penetrative vaginal and anal sex, but NO BARRIER at all for oral sex. Any kind of oral sex.

These studies yielded NO infections.

Quoted from Ann .

Hiv transmission doesn't stand a chance of happening via female genitals to mouth - there are just too many obstacles on the oral route.

The first obstacle is the mouth itself. The mouth is a veritable fortress, standing against all sorts of pathogens we come into contact with every minute of our lives. It's a very hostile environment and saliva has been shown to contain over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv.

Hiv is a very fragile virus - literally. Its outer surface doesn't take kindly to changes in its preferred environment; slight changes in temperature, moisture content and pH levels all damage the outer surface. Importantly, it needs this outer surface to be intact before it can latch onto a few, very specific cell types and infect.

Which leads to the second obstacle. Hiv can only latch onto certain types of cells, cells which are not found in abundance in the mouth.

The third obstacle to transmission this way is having hiv present in the first place. The female secretion where hiv has been shown to be present is the cervicovaginal fluid. This fluid is actually a thick mucus that covers and protects the cervix.

The fluid a woman produces when sexually excited comes from the Bartholin's glands, located on either side of the vaginal opening. I have yet to discover one shred of evidence (and believe me, I've looked) that shows this lubricating fluid to have any more hiv present than other bodily secretions such as saliva, sweat or tears. Saliva, sweat and tears are NOT infectious fluids.

So there you have it. Once the results of the serodiscordant studies started rolling in, what we know about hiv transmission on the cellular level was validated. The only people who were getting infected were those who had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. Period. One of the three studies went on for ten years and involved hundreds of couples. That's a lot of nookie.


No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan
Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117
Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.
HIV 101 - Basics
HIV 101
You can read more about Transmission and Risks here:
HIV Transmission and Risks
You can read more about Testing here:
HIV Testing
You can read more about Treatment-as-Prevention (TasP) here:
HIV TasP
You can read more about HIV prevention here:
HIV prevention
You can read more about PEP and PrEP here
PEP and PrEP

 


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