POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: helpme on January 16, 2012, 06:22:02 am
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hii i wanna be totally honest wit you people how ever stupid it sounds.
Last week i was in thailand where i met a CSW. We went up to my room where in she took of her clothes (topless and bottmless) and was completely naked.
i jsut took off my shirt where in after which , we had frottage( rubbing over each others bodies, like in the act of sex).
She was naked while i always had my pants on (i was wearing cotton pajamajs and under which i had boxers).
We rubbed aginst each other for about 4 to 5 minutes after which i had cum in my pant. I dont know if she had cum(i guess not as she was a professional CSW who i doubt would get turned on by frottage , with her pant on.)
My doubts are is there any cahnce of HIV from this incident?
I have heard that vaginal secretions have maximum virus?
i hope she didnt ozz out from the frottage and i hope the vaginal secretions didnt touck my penis?
can some one help with a detailed description that i can comprehend , getting tensed about this incident. My girlfriend wants to have unprotected sex, but i wont until this loop hole is cleared.
thanks
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also i would like to add that during this act i was always having an erection, my fear is can her vaginal fluilds come up from her pant (if she was lying on the bed and me being on top of her)
my friend also told me that unlike men , the vaginal fluild never comes out of the vagina , i stays inside the lips of the vagina.
Please correct him in case her is wrong or correct me?
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You are worrying absolutely needlessly. Nothing you did put you at risk for HIV.
The ONLY confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. That's it. As long you always use condoms for those activities no matter whom you are with you will be well protected.
Stop worrying and get on with your life. Really.
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Thanks mr.andy , hence whts all the gossip about the vaginal secretions coming in contact with the penis head?
So is it that in my scenarieo , vaginal secretions won't be ozzing out from her pant?
Or
Even if they ozze out and touch my penis head still no risk?
Any other suggestions are welcome
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HIV is a fragile virus. It absolutely is NOT transmitted in the way you are concerned about. Period.
HIV risk sexual is about unprotected vaginal and anal INTERCOURSE. You did not have unprotected intercourse. Keep it simple, fella.
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Thanks mr .andy I wish it could be so simple for me. Can u or any other moderator explain why no risk, I will be obligzed. Thanks
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Stop making the situation more complicated than it really is. Since it is a fragile virus,HIV needs the kind of receptive setting which inside a vagina or an anus can provide. Those settings are completely different from what you are worrying about.
Cut out the drama and get on with your life.
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ok thanks mr.andy, i get it now , u are saying tht its proved hiv happens only though penetration in vagina (in my case, hence not referring to anus).
there isnt any kind of risk WHSTSOEVER by frottage, even if by chance secretions do come in contact with penis head.
Correct?
also one more question which is of great importance to me, even if it sounds stupid as it help to me asses my risk. On frottage with a CSW i wanna know if the vaginal fluilds are produced. If they are then wht are the chances of the fluilds coming out of the vagina( like the cum in males ozzes out.) or does it remain confined in the vagina , making it availiable to something that only PENETRATES into it.
please forgive my ignorance? after all i wish wish to seek help and finally get a good nights sleep.
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HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions; therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.
HIV is transmitted by;
Unprotected penetrative anal and/or vaginal sex
Sharing works with other IV drug abusers
Mother to child
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thankyou mr. rapid, can u answer my earlier question and help me cus i only saw your post after i modified mine( hence u havent seen my post either)
mrs.ann are u online as well.
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thankyou mr. rapid, can u answer my earlier question and help me cus i only saw your post after i modified mine( hence u havent seen my post either)
mrs.ann are u online as well.
Reread my last reply.
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thanks for answering the first part promptly.
second and last part
also one more question which is of great importance to me, even if it sounds stupid as it help to me asses my risk. On frottage with a CSW i wanna know if the vaginal fluilds are produced. If they are then wht are the chances of the fluilds coming out of the vagina( like the cum in males ozzes out.) or does it remain confined in the vagina , making it availiable to something that only PENETRATES into it.
please forgive my ignorance? after all i wish wish to seek help and finally get a good nights sleep.
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HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions; therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.
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Physiology of vaginal secretion
As a woman becomes sexually aroused, the tissue lining the first inch or so of her vagina, known as the vaginal epithelium (the walls of the vagina), begins to swell and exude a slippery fluid (or modified plasma transudate) out through the hundreds of small ducts buried in the lining. These vaginal juices first appear right inside the vagina, and as the woman's arousal builds up, the secretions will run out the opening. Also, the labia minora at the entrance of the vagina have the greater vestibular glands (Bartholin glands) and lesser vestibular glands which produce mucous that aids in lubrication.
The release of this fluid makes vaginal and vulval play more comfortable. It doubtlessly evolved to ease both penile-vaginal insertion and the movement of sperm up the vaginal canal, increasing the likelihood of impregnation. Under perfect conditions a highly aroused young woman will lubricate profusely.
THIS IS THE FLUID I AM TAKING ABOUT, i fear that during the 4 mins of frottage (which her pants on and my boxers on) is it possible to get sexually aroused and her vaginal fuilds ozzing out from her vagina and upwards or through her panties and then pants and then on to my boxers and then into my penis.
is it possible to have such an encounter and if u were in my shoes (god forbid u r never in my shoes) what would u do?
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The fluid you are referencing is produced by the Bartholin's Gland. This fluid is not infectious.
In an HIV positive female, the infectious fluid is located deep within the cervix. Is it thick and difficult to access without full penile penetration.
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OHH OK THANKS, and also i am 100 percent sure i had cum in my own boxers at the end of it. hence any amount of liquid from the girl (if any) would have to go through my boxer if it had to reach me .
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Hey ann being a lady I feel u can adress my fear s correctly, once answerd from your side I am gonna get past thisa and lead my life. Thanks ,
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I also feel that there is no risk in frottage if both are wearing clothes, more better if the women is wearing her pants . As if a man becomes wet then there are chances he oozing out of the pants due to erection. But the girl won't become to so wet due to frottage ( rubbing dick on vagina ,as in the act of sex, with clothes on) and even if she becomes wet there won't be liquid oozing out from her pant, correct?
Please correct me if I am wrong...
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I also feel that there is no risk in frottage if both are wearing clothes, more better if the women is wearing her pants . As if a man becomes wet then there are chances he oozing out of the pants due to erection. But the girl won't become to so wet due to frottage ( rubbing dick on vagina ,as in the act of sex, with clothes on) and even if she becomes wet there won't be liquid oozing out from her pant, correct?
Please correct me if I am wrong...
HIV is transmitted by;
Unprotected penetrative anal and/or vaginal sex
Sharing works with other IV drug abusers
Mother to child
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Mr rapid I receive u r same reply everytime, wht does it mean , risk or no risk
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Mr rapid I receive u r same reply everytime, wht does it mean , risk or no risk
You had no risk and you have been told multiple times that you did not have a risk.
■Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result, or no-risk situation will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
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I am waiting for mrs. Ann s reply , please don't ban me. I have read her other posts she explains in detail. Thanks. Over and out. This is my last message while I await .
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help,
Frottage is NOT a risk for hiv infection.
I was in a relationship with an hiv negative man for over eight years. We engaged in frottage as part of foreplay nearly every time we had sex - without clothes on. He would put a condom on before we engaged in intercourse.
We were both fully confident that frottage is a no risk activity. He remained hiv negative throughout our relationship and is still hiv negative to this day.
Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:
You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.
To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.
Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.
ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST SPECIFICALLY OVER FROTTAGE, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.
If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.
Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!
Ann
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Mrs.Ann thanks a lot. Frottage for m was penis rubbing on vagina (with clothes on in my case) .
Thanks again for u r explanation , I was justt scared of her fuilds oozing out from her pant.
U r reply has brought a smile on my face, it means a lot.
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OK, good that you are satisfied with Ann's detailed response. HIV is absolutely not transmitted in the kind of oozing way you have been concerned about.
Let this go now and get on with your life. HIV is not your problem in relation to you recent incident. Period.
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ok great news, thanks Mr.Andy is there any way i can contribute to this forum . i mean in monetary terms.
thankyou and your team. I also read ur profile and would like to attend your lecture one day.
thanks
over and out
wht i learnt from this forum is:
hiv isnt transmitted from frottage, it needs penetrative sex.
no risk even if the fluids happen to touch each other by chance.
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help,
As you are not in the States, we would be unable to accept a donation from you.
However, helping hiv positive organisations anywhere benefits us all - including you and other hiv negative people. You can find an organisation near you on the aidsmap.com (http://www.aidsmap.com/e-atlas) database of aids organisations world-wide.
Thank you for your contribution, where ever it may be.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!
Ann
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Hey ann I wanted to ask u this whn u were online, during ur 8 years of frottage. Did any time the vaginal secretions touched ur partners penis?
I just wanted to confirm this . That's all .thanks
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Did any time the vaginal secretions touched ur partners penis?
Yes. Every single time we engaged in frottage. He'd be covered in vaginal secretions.
You did NOT have a risk for hiv infection!!!
It's high time you let this go. If you continue to question this NO RISK situation, you WILL be given that Time Out Rodney warned you about.
Ann
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ok thankyou for u r patience.(which i really tried , due to my posts). i am letting go and not going to test over this incident. bye .
P.S . Mrs ann i love u r profile pic (black cat)
take care.
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Help,
Bye!
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!
Ann
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Response from Dr. Frascino
Hi,
1. Frottage is not considered to be a risk for HIV transmission. Contact with infected cervical/vaginal fluids, however, does carry some degree of risk.
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Response from Dr. Frascino
Hi,
1. Frottage is not considered to be a risk for HIV transmission. Contact with infected cervical/vaginal fluids, however, does carry some degree of risk.
Sadly, Dr. Fransisco is no longer with us to debate the wisdom of his words.
He is absolutely correct, and very wrong.
Cervical fluids, thick mucous-like fluids deep within the vagina, do carry infectious fluids. These fluids are NOT encountered by rubbing or fingers. They are encountered through the thrusting of a penis during intercourse.
Even if you HAD seven inch long fingers, there are no receptor cells that would facilitate HIV transmission, even if you had a fresh hangnail or cut.
Moreover, thirty years' worth of careful patient study (the most important being the sero-discordant couples' studies since 1997) have shown exactly ZERO instances of HIV transmission documented through frottage, fingering, or cunnilingus.
This is regardless of a woman's menstrual status or viral load.
Sadly, good doctors such as Dr. Fransisco did not remain a viable source for up-to-date HIV transmission theory, and sites that host their work do them - and us - a great disservice by maintaining obsolete and obtuse reports.
Searching the archives of TheBody.com will no doubt show you risks in kissing, fingering, oral sex (in any of the four methods), rimming, and other vectors of transmission that have been proven to be false.
Such is the nature of the web. And this is why we simply haven't the time, energy or resources to investigate each and every claim made on other sites - especially sites with notoriously poor track records of upkeep, or sites with obvious agendas.
Our risk assessment is based on the most current, state of the art information - compounded as soon as studies are validated - and based on first tiered peer-reviewed scientific data.
You may take them or not, but our answers will not alter based on obsolete opinions formed at a time before we were even clear about the vectors of HIV transmission.
*modified to add: I assume you meant Dr Bob Fransisco from thebody.com . If you referenced another doctor or another site, my answer (besides the update on his mortality) remains the same.
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thanks for your reply . the site is indeed thebody.com
Anyways as you rightly said we cant debate over why other sites do not update them selves.
You siad:
Cervical fluids, thick mucous-like fluids deep within the vagina, do carry infectious fluids. These fluids are NOT encountered by rubbing or fingers. They are encountered through the thrusting of a penis during intercourse.
and
Vaginal fuilds which emerge on rubbing or frottage do not carry a risk of hiv ? is that so? even if they come in contact with the penis head?
Hece in my scenario i didnt have unprotected sex hence the question of Cervical fuilds do not arise.
Now about vaginal fluids , which are emerged during the frottage i had(in which the girl and me both had pants on) i hope that isnt infectous.??
thats all and since her pants are on i sincerely hope they didnt come out or ozzee out and touch my penis head.
Mrs ann i can relate to the information u shared , vaginal fluid touched your partner hence no risk , also he put on a condom when he engaged in intercourse to protect himself from cervical fluids caused upon thrusting. PHEW did i get it right this time.
If it is right i am definately gonna educate a few if not many iin my life that s a promise.
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Mrs ann i can relate to the information u shared , vaginal fluid touched your partner hence no risk , also he put on a condom when he engaged in intercourse to protect himself from cervical fluids caused upon thrusting. PHEW did i get it right this time.
Yes, you got it right. And to be extra clear, he never washed or wiped or whatever in between frottage and putting the condom on.
Frottage is NOT a risk for hiv infection!
I promise you, if you come back for more concerning this NO RISK situation, you WILL be given that time out.
Please consider yourself warned for the absolute LAST time!
Ann
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MY LAST POST :
Thanks Ann in you i trust. I am gonna do these things
1. Not gonna get tested regarding this incident
2. Have unprotected sex only with my trusted girlfriend (mono relationship)
thanks again everyone. thanks for saying no risk.
Bye
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I know that on many other posts you have vehemently stated "No penetration, no HIV, the virus lives deep inside the woman by the cervix and requires full penetration involving specific/specialized conditions to spread." Those posts have given me great comfort, particularly as I am truly not promiscuous and this was a one time outlier event for me. I guess I would just like the reassurance that there is no way under the sun given the scenario I described above that HIV was transmitted. It seems difficult to believe thatfor example that HIV is present in vaginal secretions but cannot spread during frottage to the penis tip.
ann , andy?
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I know that on many other posts you have vehemently stated "No penetration, no HIV, the virus lives deep inside the woman by the cervix and requires full penetration involving specific/specialized conditions to spread." Those posts have given me great comfort, particularly as I am truly not promiscuous and this was a one time outlier event for me. I guess I would just like the reassurance that there is no way under the sun given the scenario I described above that HIV was transmitted. It seems difficult to believe thatfor example that HIV is present in vaginal secretions but cannot spread during frottage to the penis tip.
How many times do you have to be told that you didn't have a risk and how HIV is transmitted? You are not heeding the warnings you have been given.
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Help,
If we thought you were at risk in the slightest, we'd tell you and tell you to test.
You did NOT have a risk! Re-read your entire thread until it sinks in.
I'm giving you that time out you've been warned about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.
Ann
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hii there, well i got myself tested on the 42th day and the result came out negative. i have heard that 22 days is the time for secroversions and that all the tests carried out nowdays do dectet it early arounds a months time. ?
today is the 54th day from my exposure, i feel that later when iget hiv and no one will ever believe that i got it by frottage, it will be as if i made up to hide my pentrative act. This tension mounts as i have dry cough ever since the time of exposure.ie. 54 days although my weight hasnt reduced.
do u feel that i should get tested on the 54th day or wait for some more days like 70days or 90days to be absolutely sure.
i would never come back to this forum and hassel youll with my problem if my mind was at ease.
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hii there, well i got myself tested on the 42th day and the result came out negative. i have heard that 22 days is the time for secroversions and that all the tests carried out nowdays do dectet it early arounds a months time. ?
today is the 54th day from my exposure, i feel that later when iget hiv and no one will ever believe that i got it by frottage, it will be as if i made up to hide my pentrative act. This tension mounts as i have dry cough ever since the time of exposure.ie. 54 days although my weight hasnt reduced.
do u feel that i should get tested on the 54th day or wait for some more days like 70days or 90days to be absolutely sure.
i would never come back to this forum and hassel youll with my problem if my mind was at ease.
■Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result, or no-risk situation will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
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You don't seem to be listening to anything that has been said to you. You've repeatedly been told that you did not have a risk for HIV. There is no need for testing at all except if you insist on doing it for your peace of mind.
You're simply going to get another negative result.
If you come back here again about this same matter you're going to get another Time Out. This time it will be for 56 days.
HIV is not your problem. Period. Re-read what has already been said to.