Sharing IV

[karainsomnia]

Dear Moderators,

I made the biggest mistake 3 months ago when I was extremely drunk. First time in my life I used IV injection and it was used before me. I do have no idea whether the guy was positive or negative.

Then, I haven been tested 4 times: The last was 3 months after the exposure. All tests were negative and were INSTI 3rd generation ab tests.

Do I need more tests? I am very depressed nowadays. I can't bear it anymore.

Thank you

insomnia

[Andy Velez]

Sharing needles is very high risk so you were smart to get tested. The only time when testing up to 6 months is necessary is when longterm intravenous drug use is involved.

In your case you can happily consider your negative result to be conclusive and reliable. But learn from this experience. Sharing needles is absolute to be avoided.

Good to know you made it through safely this time. There's no cause for further concern about HIV and that incident.

Cheers.

[karainsomnia]

Thank you Andy.

However, I am confused.

I even do not smoke and consider myself healthy. This was my first and last experience.

Do I need testing at 6 month? You scared me.

[karainsomnia]

I mean, does the type of the risk change the window period?

For instance, is there any difference between vaginal sex and sharing IV in terms of window period?

[Ann]

Kara,

You do not need further hiv testing over this one-time needle sharing incident. You are conclusively hiv negative.

However, you do need to be tested for hepatitis C. Hep C is very commonly transmitted through needle sharing - much more so than hiv.

You do NOT need further hiv testing. You are conclusively hiv negative.

You DO need to test for hepatitis C. Go do it.

Ann

[karainsomnia]

Thank you Ann.

By the way, is this your picture? You are so beautiful.

I have already been tested for HEP C. It is also negative.

Lastly, would you please answer this question?

Is there any difference between vaginal sex and sharing IV in terms of window period?
Andy Velez said: 6 months is necessary is when longterm intravenous drug use is involved.

What does it mean?

Thanks

[Ann]

Kara,

No, there is no difference in the window period for a vaginal exposure or a one-off needle exposure.

What Andy means is that if someone is using street drugs intravenously every day for years, that means they are probably quite run-down physically and it may take them a little longer than usual to create enough antibodies to test positive. However, even habitual IV drug users will usually seroconvert and test positive within the normal window period.

I'm glad you also tested for hep C and that it was also negative. You were lucky.

If you should ever find yourself in that position again, the best thing to do is to run some bleach through the works and flush repeatedly (three or four times) with water before using. If there is no bleach available, antibacterial soap is a fairly good substitute and if there is absolutely nothing available, at least flush the works repeatedly with water before you use it. This isn't so much for hiv, but more for hep C. Hep C is a very robust virus, unlike hiv. You should also clean any spoon or other cooking vessel before using it - again because of hep C. Do not re-use a filter used by someone else. And don't put the needle in water that someone else has used - get your own.

You may be telling yourself "never again", but I'd rather you know this information just in case. Believe me, you do not want hep C. Been there, done that, hated it. I was lucky in that the treatment worked for me, but it was a year of hell. HELL.

Anyway, lighten up. You have no reason to be depressed as you are conclusively hiv and hep C negative. And don't beat yourself up over putting yourself at risk - you made a mistake and that's what we humans do. Just make sure you learn from it - and remember what I told you if you should ever find yourself in that position again.

And while you're here, here's what you need to know in order to keep yourself safe in the sexual arena...

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

PS - yes, that's me in the avatar.... you are too kind. Thank you.

[karainsomnia]

Dear Ann,

If a HIV positive person looks like you, I do not afraid of it anymore.

You have extremely good looking, meaningful eyes.

I wish you the best.

Thank you!

[Ann]

Kara,

Many hiv positive people look healthy. This is why you must always protect yourself - whether sexually or during IV drug use - unless you are in a committed relationship and have tested for hiv (and hep C in the case of IVDU) together. 999 times out of 1000 you'd never know that a person is hiv positive just by looking at them.

And while you should not be afraid of people who are hiv positive, you still need to protect yourself. Please remember that!

Ann

[karainsomnia]

Dear Ann,

Doctors from thebody.com say coinfection (HCV and HIV) delays the window period.
Doctors from medhelp.com say it has no effect on HIV window period.

I am again very confused. Does coinfection delay HIV window period or not?

Thank you

[Ann]

Kara,

The only time coinfection with hiv and hep C would affect the window period is if that person is an injecting drug user who has been using every single day - for years - and are in general poor health as a result. These are the only cases where delayed seroconversion (in relation to IVDU and coinfection) has been seen. Even then, there have only been a handful of cases where this happened and if my memory serves me well, most of the cases were in homeless addicts. So again, it's the very poor health of the IDU that causes the problem.

You are conclusively hiv negative.

Ann

[karainsomnia]

Dear Ann,

Yesterday, I went to a private clinic for a further HCV test.
The nurse used a BD needle, tube holder and vacuum tube.

My fear probably sounds crazy but I feel very deeply that the needle was not sterile.
You will get angry and say it is not possible in a health care setting, I know.

But, my question is very simple and I really need your help.

Is a small amout of HCV blood (miniscule as you guess) in bore of the needle enough to infect a person without injecting but just touching my vein?

Vacuum tube sucks my blood. So, there is no injecting but just pulling out. Therefore, I wonder whether just touching of dry blood to my vein is dangerous.

Thank you Ann

[Ann]

Kara,

You've already guessed my answer - needles are not reused. You're travelling down a slippery slope when you start imagining things like this - so knock it off for your own sake. We're not going to go down that road with you.

Ann

[karainsomnia]

Yes, I think so.

I reckon, you have a great experience on hiv anxiety. What do you think? Is my thinking common among worried wells? I mean, am I the only one who stuck in irrational thoughts?

[Ann]

Kara,

Yes, we see the fear of being infected through the testing process questions all the time here. And no, none of them ever ended up being infected this way. And YES, it's very irrational to think this is going to happen. So stop it.

Ann

[karainsomnia]

Dear Ann,

It has come to my notice that you live in Isle of Man and frequently visit England.

I live in London and up to now I have visited Mortimer Clinic (university college london), 56 Dean Street Clinic (westminster hospital), Terrence Higgins. I have talked to many nurses and doctors. Almost all of them (except 1-2 nurses) told me that Hiv DUO test is very assuring at 4 weeks and a retesting at 6 weeks gives a definitive result.

However, herein, I see you supporting CDC in terms of outdated window period.

Outdated? Yes, indeed.

The official window period in France is 6 weeks with hiv DUO test. (visit HAS-SANTE which is CDC of Europe)
The official window period in Greece is 8 week with antibody alone tests. (my cousin visited a hospital and asked for me)
Specialized GUM clinics in London state that 4 weeks is the window period with hiv Duo test.
In Canada, the window period is 6 weeks with Hiv DUO test. (aidsvancouver.org : online helpline)

If this is the web-site of UNCLE SAM, please let me know. Even worse, I see some pathetic writers such as RapidRod who is very rude, very unhelpful and even ill mannered. One thing, I had been feeling much better before TEAK (helped me!).

You are doing great! BUT, know that 3 months is the window period for US.

The actual problem is that Ann, you visit Royal Hospital and know better than me that the window period is not 3 months in England. However, here you answer as if you do not talk it to your doctor or do not know the fact. Why do you do that? Why do you let people to suffer 1,5 months more?

Best Regards,

[Andy Velez]

I've merged your threads here. In the future please follow our rule and always write in this same thread if you have further comments.

I'm going to leave it to Ann to respond to your questions since you have so pointedly directed them to her.

Regarding our following the 3 months recommended by the CDC for testing, we do know that at 3 months all tests currently in use will yield a reliable result. We also consistently point out that a negative test result at 6 weeks is a strong indication that the result will be negative again at 3 months. 

[karainsomnia]

Andy,

Thank you for your answer. I really appreciate your effort. You are amazing, unbelievable. (except RapidRod or Teak- so-called obey-me-or-get-stuffed ) 

Yes Andy, what you said is very important indeed.

The window period is 3 months for CDC (even 97% in 3 month!!!) because 4th generation tests are not available in everywhere. It is logical. BUT:

This is global web-site. I am living London, another user is living in Uganda, one another is living in Kuala Lumpur etc..

Therefore, I kindly suggest you to add to you precious lessons that: there are many different generations of HIV tests and window periods accordingly.

OR;

Let the people know that the window period is not 3 months with 4th generation testing mechanism.

Note: Teak or rapidrod banned me from medhelp just because I say above. this is fascism. being hiv positive should not let him to be a bloody fascist!

[Andy Velez]

I suggest that you stick to whatever is relevant to your situation rather than getting sidetracked with personality issues.   

Your suggestion comments have been duly noted. 

The matter of a reliable testing point is one that has been thoroughly discussed here in past years. For clarity and simplicity it's been decided that overall it is best to stick with 3 months as a  reliable testing point.  You may not agree with that, but that's where we are at. That maybe adjusted sometime in the future when there is a universally reliable earlier testing point. 

[Ann]

Kara,

The official window period for hiv testing remains at three months in the UK and Europe. I have just spent well over an hour reviewing the current literature from BHIVA (UK authority on hiv), WHO Europe and AIDS Action Europe, amongst others. The current guidelines were created in 2008 and have not changed since then. Whether or not they will change any time soon is yet to be seen.

While some countries (ie your example of France) may use a shorter window, such countries are pretty much guaranteed to only permit the sale and usage of fourth generation duo tests. Massachusetts in the US also uses a six week window - but only fourth generation duo tests are permitted there. 

It is almost universally agreed that the fourth generation duo test will pick up an infection within a month. However, the official window period remains at three months to pick up the rare person who takes a little longer than four to six weeks to create enough antibodies to cause a reactive result. It's a case of "better safe than sorry".

From the UK HIV Testing Guidelines published in 2008 (and still currently in effect) by BHIVA:

The need for a repeat HIV test if still within the window period after a specific exposure should be discussed. Although fourth generation tests shorten the time from exposure to seroconversion a repeat test at three months is still recommended to definitively exclude HIV infection.

While I suspect the window period will become, at sometime in the future, six weeks everywhere, the window period is still three months and we have a duty to reflect the current official guidelines here in the forums.

You should keep in mind that the majority of people who post in this forum have not even had a risk for hiv infection. Others do not trust the three month window and insist on six month testing. Can you imagine the uproar if we told them the window period was only four or six weeks?

By the way, while this website is based in the US, we do take into account the global nature of our readership. Hiv transmission risks are universal and hiv testing methods are also increasingly universal. My research has led me to believe that first and second generation hiv antibody tests are no longer being manufactured. Even third generation tests will normally pick up an infection by six weeks, but the official window remains at three months nearly everywhere, with a few countries still insisting on six month testing.

As for Rodney, he's not so much rude as concise to the point of possibly being abrupt. He just tells it like it is in short, simple sentences. If you don't like how he responds, don't read his responses. It's as simple as that. Do NOT continue with the Rodney-bashing and name-calling. Such behaviour is not permitted here. I also do not appreciate your insinuation that we gain some sort of pleasure in telling people they must wait three months for a conclusive result. To tell people otherwise would be irresponsible on our part.

Ann

[karainsomnia]

Dear Ann,ı

the last question: some say coinfection of HCV and HIV at the same time delay the HIV window period, some say there is no relation at all.

i wanted to ask your opinion as you are much more competent that some doctors.

[karainsomnia]

Dear Andy, your answer is also , of course, welcomed

[Ann]

Kara,

We've already answered your latest question several times. Re-read your entire thread.

I've giving you a time out. You seem to think this forum is your personal space in which to go nit-picking and worrying. It's not. You tested negative for both hiv and hep C within the accepted window periods. It's time you moved on.

Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Ann

[karainsomnia]

Dear Moderators,

My anxiety is driving me crazy again. While I was reading 3 month- 6month debate I realized that you moderators argue that one needs 6 months test if one suffers from immunodeficiency disorder. What do you mean by that?

How can I know if I have an immunodeficiency disorder as it can be hidden, right?

I tested negative 3 months but what if I have some kind of immunodeficiency disorder?

Best Regards,

[Ann]

Kara,

No, that is not what we say.

What we DO say is this: The only people who MIGHT take a little longer than three months to seroconvert and test positive are those people who are on chemotherapy for cancer, anti-rejection drugs following organ transplant, or those people who have been injecting street drugs, EVERY DAY, for YEARS. Even people in these categories are most likely to test positive by three months.

You can keep on testing over this needle incident if you like, but you're only going to clock up more negative results - and waste time, money and NHS resources while you do it. Knock it off already. You do NOT have hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and do not share drug injecting needles, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!

Ann

[karainsomnia]

Dear Ann,

Thank you Ann. Just a final confirmation:

Auto-immune or immunodeficiency diseases might give false positives but do not extend the window period beyond 3 months. Is it true?

Thank you

[Ann]

Kara,

No, they do not extend the window period. If they did, we would have said.

If you keep using this forum to fret about this, you will be given a second time out that will last for 56 days instead of 28. Please consider yourself warned!!!

Ann