Thank you Andy, Rapid Rod and Ann

[rickms]

Okay, yes I’m panicking; I think there was a significant probability that I may have contracted HIV. Here is my story. I’ve befriended an erotic dancer (stripper/dancer) and after hanging out for a few months outside of the club we had a sexual encounter. Here are my concerns:

•   We’ve done a significant amount of open mouth kissing and although I understand kissing does not transfer HIV there was a point where I had significant oral surgery, we kissed about a week after I had the surgery. There is a good chance that I still had an open wound. There is no reason for me to believe she had any oral problems such as bleeding of the gums but can HIV tainted saliva mix with my open wound and cause a problem.

•   She is an erotic dancer, although I have no reason to believe she prostitutes herself she is in an industry where sex does occur for money. She is 21 and has only been dancing for a year. My experience with her within the club was nothing but professional no inappropriate touching other then grinding and no kissing.

•   She claims she was tested for STD(s) three months ago, I have no proof and she has lied about other things.

•   I masturbated her the day I had a manicure (some small cuts on the finger). My fingers did fully penetrate and she was wet. The worst part was it turned out she was just finishing her period so there was some dry blood on my fingers. I wish she would have told me before I went to town. 

•   At some point we were naked and grinded a bit, meaning my erect penis rubbed against her vulvae for some time, no real penetrations.

•   Lastly, we did have full intercourse but I did use a condom,

 
A couple days after this encounter I began having a burning and itching sensation on my testicles. Not on the shaft but on my testicles. I panicked and went to the doctor. I did not provide much information regarding the encounter, was just too embarrassed. The doctor did not see anything. He thought it may be tied more to anxiety. The problem went a way after a couple of days. There were no sores, marks or redness.

About two weeks following this encounter I got  tested for HIV plus herpes and other STDs. All tests came back negative.

I know two weeks is not enough. I would like an opinion on the likelihood that I’ve contracted HIV and secondly when should I go back for further testing.

[RapidRod]

You didn't need to test because you never had a risk in the first place.

[rickms]

You didn't need to test because you never had a risk in the first place.

Thanks for the quick reply. I definitely need to be better educated. I do hope you are correct. I appears maybe hiv transmission does not occur as easy as I thought.

[Matty the Damned]

Rick,

Roddles is quite correct. You have not placed yourself at risk of HIV infection. You should read our Welcome Thread to learn more about how HIV is and is not transmitted.

MtD

[rickms]

Rick,

Roddles is quite correct. You have not placed yourself at risk of HIV infection. You should read our Welcome Thread to learn more about how HIV is and is not transmitted.

MtD

Actually I did read through some of that.  I read the following and let my paranoia run away with me.

"While it is theoretically possible that someone who has an open cut or fresh abrasion on his or her finger or hand can be infected with HIV if coming into contact with blood in the anus or vagina or vaginal secretions, there has never been a documented case of HIV transmission via fingering." I figured that was the case, it did have small abrasions (cuts) on my fingers and while fingering her came in contact with both her vaginal secretions and bllood (post period).

Also I had read somewhere that HIV has been passed between two people french kissing but both parties had severe bleeding gums.

I guess since these have such low risk, you guys are concluding I'm not at risk.

[RapidRod]

No one has been ever been verified to have contracted HIV from French Kissing.

[rickms]

I had unprotected vaginal intercourse and performed cunnilingus with a stripper.  It was one night. She claims she had been tested for STD(s) but I have no proof. I''m circumcised for what it is worth. I did not cum in her but pulled out before ejaculating. I'm sure I'm at risk but to what extent. Also, how long before I should go get tested. I'm sure I'm going to be in a panic until I really know. The stress is going to kill me! Also, to make things worse I cheated with my long term girlfriend and need to deal with it. I need to stay away from having sex with my girlfriend and that will be a trick, specially if I have to wait months before getting tested. 

Should I consider PEP?

Lastly, is there something I could do now and are there any early testing that can be done.

[Ann]

Rick,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.

So either you lied to us about your risk the first time you posted, or you've had another encounter AFTER being on this forum and supposedly learning how to protect yourself from hiv.

If you really did have unprotected intercourse, then you need to test at the three month point. You would be unlikely to be given PEP for a one-time insertive incident. PEP must be initiated within 72 hours, preferably 48. It consists of highly toxic drugs that can cause severe side-effects and is not to be taken lightly.

To be honest, I think you didn't like the "no risk" response you got the first time around and so you decided to up the ante. If you went out and had unprotected intercourse after reading this website, then more fool you. Even so, I do not expect you to test positive if you truly did have a one-off unprotected encounter.

Ann

[rickms]

Call me a fool. I do not disagree. This is indeed a second encounter with a stipper I've known (if you could ever know a stipper) for a number of months. I can deal with your judgment, I just wanted some information. This is a new incident with some different circumstances. 

[RapidRod]

Why are you asking the same questions again for a risk that you have just been through? Seek professional mental help. There is something wrong with a person that would put themselves at risk again just after getting over a risk. You've heard of condoms, use them.

[rickms]

I'm not going to argue, seeing a mental health professional may be in my future. Sex addict maybe, not sure? After 15 years with my current girlfriend this is the first time I've cheated. I'm not proud of it and am attempting to deal with the guilt and the behavior. My first post regarding my first encounter  discussed what members on this forum claimed as not a risk. I should have learned after the hell I went through worrying about whether I was infected. This second encounter was/is different. I'm not going to explain why I did not use a condom, there was one actually right next to the bed, there was a stupid reason for not using the condom and I know better. Since this encounter was different I asked again about the risks based on the actions of this last encounter.  I guess I was hoping someone would tell me that yes there is a risk but not that great because female to male transmission has a lower risk, also since  this  a single  encounter maybe statistically my risk is lower. Or at least someone could have given me an opinion on PEP?

I'm going to get tested but I'm not going to a doctor regarding PEP? I've know know this girl for 8 months, I've met some of her family, friends, we've grown to know each other. Although she is a dancer, that does not necessarily make her a prostitute. She claims she was tested for STD(s) three months ago and everything came up negative. She said her doctor has the results and she is willing to share that with me.  She also claims she has not slept with anybody for about two years, since she broke up with her fiance. Okay, this can all be lie but at this point I have no true confirmation she is HIV positive. I cannot see doing PEP

Hey not only that, even though I did not ejaculate inside her I'm now worried about her getting pregnant. Precum still has sperm.I guess this is a question for another forum.

Anyway, all of you have the right to flog me if I ever do this again! I am just surprised of the hostile (maybe a strong word) response to this post. I wonder if people are passing judgment.  If I had claimed I had used a condom and the condom had broke and the girl I was sleeping with was an "upstanding" citizen whether I would have received more thoughtful replies.

It is not my intention to start a flame war. This site really is generally a great thing with knowledgeable and supportive members.

Enough said.

[Andy Velez]

OK, let's just stick to some simple facts as you have expressed them.

The bottom line is that you had unprotected intercourse. That means there was some risk and you have to get tested. The CDC recommends doing that at 13 weeks. Doing PEP would in my opinion NOT be called for in this incident. And here's why: HIV is not an easy virus to transmit. It's significantly more difficult to accomplish from female to male. Given it was a single incident the odds against transmission are significantly in your favor. Of course low risk is not the same as no risk so testing is indicated.

The fact that you didn't ejaculate in her is irrelevant. Ejaculation in an unprotected incident would be a risk for the receptive partner, not for the insertive.

The average time to seroconversion is 22 days. All but the smallest number who will seroconvert will do so within 4-6 weeks after an exposure to the HIV virus. So a negative at 6 weeks points strongly in the direction that you'll continue to test negative.

You have to sort out what you want to do about intercourse with your longtime gf during the weeks before you test. Although I do expect you're ultimately going to test negative that is not the same as having a negative test result in your hand.

Good luck with your test. Keep us posted. 

And even if you aren't planning to stray again just make sure that if you do so in the future wear a condom everytime. They provide very effective protection.

[rickms]

Thanks Andy for the thoughtful reply. That helps.

[Andy Velez]

You're welcome. I'm glad you found our exchange to be helpful.

[Ann]

Rick,

I suppose I owe you an apology. The tone of my response came from my suspicions that you were still talking about your first incident and that you were not happy with the "no risk" responses you had, and so decided to up the ante. (we've had people do that here before)

It was also frustrating to think that if it was a separate incident, then our "use condoms" message fell on deaf ears. Sometimes I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall, but I should not have snapped at you because of it. I'm sorry.

I hope you did notice that I also wrote to you about PEP and your risk level - although admittedly in rather terse terms.

You do need to test, but I expect you to come out of this ok. PLEASE... make sure you start using condoms. You're playing roulette with your health and the ball just might drop on your number if you spin the wheel enough times.

Ann

[rickms]

Ann,

Not a problem. I'm harder on myself then anybody could ever be. You guys have undoubtedly saved people much stress and have saved lives. I can understand the frustration of giving people advice that can save their lives and then having them ignore them. This last incident will now have me stressing until I come back clean. I cannot believe how stupid I've been with this, I'm pretty successful in most aspects of life but this dancer has my head spinning. Nothing is worse then falling for a girl that creates male fantasies for a living; the male ego gets stoked so easily.

Anyway, thanks for the reply and thanks for helping.

[Andy Velez]

You're welcome.

I do expect you to come back "negative." That's different from "clean." Using the term "clean" in relation to HIV is offensive. Just think for a minute -- if HIV is "dirty," which is what saying "clean" implies, then what would that say about those who respond to you and who operate this site? Get it?

Get educated about this issue because those who live with HIV have to deal not only with the challenges to their health, but also the stigma implicit just such terms as clean and dirty.

Please remember that and not just on World AIDS Day.   

[rickms]

I understand your point. I was really referring to lab results being clean, not my body.

[rickms]

Are there enough antibodies produced during seroconversion that an HIV test would show positive. For example if after a three weeks after a risky encounter a person begins to  seroconvert is it worth being tested at that time or does one need to wait the recommended six weeks.

[RapidRod]

Three weeks is to early and 6 weeks may be to early for some. The conclusive negative result can be obtained at 3 months post exposure.

[rickms]

I thought the seroconversion can begin as early as two weeks after infection. I was just wondering if during seroconversion antibodies would be generated that would be identified with testing.

[Matty the Damned]

Rick I can appreciate you wanting to get this over with as soon as possible, but the reality is that most likely you're gonna have wait out the 13 weeks.

Most people who test positive will do so by 6 weeks so if you feel the need test then, but remember that a negative result at 6 weeks must be confirmed by a negative result at 13 weeks.

I agree with the others here and expect that you will test negative.

MtD

[rickms]

So I've been really sick for the last week and a half. It is has kept me out out of work for a couple days. The hypochondriac in me is thinking seroconversion, it has been a few weeks since my last unprotected sexual experience and more then a month or so since my first real low risk encounter. Terrible muscle aches, headaches, upper and lower respiratory problems and a continuing sore throat. I finally did go to my doctor, he quickly and nonchalantly dismissed any possibility of HIV/serconversion. Said it was a flu and sent me on my way. I know it way too early to get tested. I guess even if I was seroconverting what can be done at that point. Since I have not hit the six week or twelve mark it is way too early to get tested. This does really suck.

Anyway, I cannot wait to be tested. I would have felt better if I thought my doctor really at least considered the possibility that I may be infected.

Time will tell..

[Matty the Damned]

I've caused my girlfriend I'm not sure I do not deserve anything I have got or will get.

HIV is not a punishment for perceived wicked behaviour. It is a virus. Nothing more, nothing less.

MtD

[rickms]

I've caused my girlfriend I'm not sure I do not deserve anything I have got or will get.

HIV is not a punishment for perceived wicked behaviour. It is a virus. Nothing more, nothing less.

MtD

Sorry, that was insensitive. Thank you for the correction. I understand, I guess coming to grips that the risk can be greatly minimized and I choose not to take the necessary precautions. I should be allowed to beat up myself, no?

[Andy Velez]

You can indulge in beating yourself if you like. In my experience it often just sets up a syndrome to be repeated in the future. 

The way I see it you'd be better off simply committing yourself to, always without exception, using condoms in the future.

[rickms]

You can indulge in beating yourself if you like. In my experience it often just sets up a syndrome to be repeated in the future. 

The way I see it you'd be better off simply committing yourself to, always without exception, using condoms in the future.

Thanks for the reply Andy. Do you have any opinion on thoughts that I'm going through seroconversion?

[Ann]

Rick,

We cannot possibly tell you whether or not you are seroconverting. You'll just have to wait until six weeks to test.

Ann

[rickms]

I’ve used this forum a few times to ask question regarding “possible” risky behavior and my potential risk of contracting HIV. I just want to thank Andy , Rapid Rod and Ann for the work they perform on this site. They have to deal with all sorts or very worried and sometimes unreasonable posters. The service they provide is really invaluable. I do wish some of their knowledge regarding risk was more common public information. There are still folks out there that think HIV can be contracted through public pools, gym equipment and public toilets. Personally, prior to coming to this forum, I’m thought fingering, oral and kissing were serious risks. 

Andy, Rapid Rod and Ann thanks for the service and compassion.

Richie

[Ann]

Rick,

Once again, I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread. Even when you're just posting to say thanks.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.


You're welcome for the help. I take it you ultimately tested negative after your unprotected intercourse. I hope you have learned a lesson and now use condoms with anyone, unless you're in a securely monogamous relationship where you've both tested negative TOGETHER.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.

Ann

[rickms]

Rick,

Once again, I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread. Even when you're just posting to say thanks.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.


You're welcome for the help. I take it you ultimately tested negative after your unprotected intercourse. I hope you have learned a lesson and now use condoms with anyone, unless you're in a securely monogamous relationship where you've both tested negative TOGETHER.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.

Ann

Yes, I tested negative but the thank you would have came even if the tests were positive.


Also, I apologize for not understanding that even threads of different topics should be continued as one.


Again, thank you.

[Andy Velez]

You're welcome.  Now get on with your life.