Possible ARS Symptoms Two Weeks After Giving Oral Sex

[phoenix1317]

Hi! I’m going to keep this thread as short as possible. I’m an 18 year old heterosexual female. I’ve been sexually active for almost two years. I’ve ALWAYS used condoms for vaginal sex and never for oral sex because I understand that the risk is miniscule. I must also mention that I was recently diagnosed with hypochondria after an irrational rabies scare in the summer and I am in treatment. I also have a history of experiencing psychosomatic symptoms whenever my hypochondria resurfaces.

On December 14, I performed oral sex on my current boyfriend. Beforehand, I asked if he was clear of any STDs including HIV and he insisted that he got tested at a clinic at his college where everything came out fine. I had no reason to suspect that he was lying although we hadn’t know each other that long. He isn’t a person that is considered high risk. He’s a 19 year old white heterosexual male who doesn’t inject drugs. The oral sex lasted for about 15 minutes and he didn’t ejaculate in my mouth. I believe there was pre-cum present but not enough for me to taste it. I have relatively good oral health although I did have two small cavities in my upper right. I wasn’t worried as I know that cavities aren’t direct routes to the bloodstream. I’m not sure if I had any cuts on my lips from them being chapped.
On December 24 and 25, I got an extremely sore throat that started as an earache. I didn’t have a fever. I was freaking out because I rarely get sick and I realized that it could possibly be ARS because the time frame fit. On December 27, I went to a health clinic and got tested for STDs including HIV. I tested negative which pretty much concluded that I didn’t contract anything from the two previous guys that I was with, which was no less than 8 weeks ago. I knew that it was too early to test relating to the oral sex with my boyfriend and would have to wait. During the weekend, the sore throat got worse to the point that I had four swollen lymph nodes on my neck and under my chin. They were sore and tender to the touch.
 
I had pretty lost most of my appetite that I already didn’t have from extreme stress. When I’m severely stressed I can’t eat or even drink water and I become malnourished and dehydrated. My aunt and uncle commented that I was losing a lot of weight. On December 31, I woke up and noticed that I had what I believed to be a swollen lymph node on the right side of my groin. It only hurt if I pressed down on it. I was especially spooked. I got a call from the clinic and found out that I had strep throat, which was why my throat hurt although I did not suspect it because I didn’t have swollen tonsils. I started antibiotics that night and about an hour or two after I took my first dose, I went to the bathroom and had white cottage cheese discharge coming from my private area. My aunt told me that I was developing a yeast infection from the antibiotics but I was a bit perplexed because I didn’t believe that the antibiotics would cause a yeast infection that quickly. Of course, I looked it up and thrush is a symptom of ARS. I started developing joint pains on my right side before I went to sleep. It went away the next day. About one or two days later, a lymph node on my left side became swollen. I was extremely tired, which probably stemmed from not eating or drinking but then again I’m not sure.

I’m paranoid because I started getting sick almost exactly two weeks after giving my boyfriend oral sex. I called him up and asked him rather rudely if he had HIV. He got extremely upset and almost broke up with me because of it. He told me that he hates when I worry about diseases that we both don’t have. I know that symptoms are never a clear indicator on whether or not someone has HIV and that oral sex carries minimal risk, but I’m scared. I have a habit of Googling and came across a blog post in which a woman claimed that she contracted HIV exclusively from oral sex. Every website such as CDC and aids.gov claim that there is a risk with oral sex and I don’t know what to believe. Is it a coincidence that I ended up sick two weeks after giving my boyfriend oral sex? Are my symptoms ARS specific? Is it a real risk or just my hypochondria acting up again? Any response would be greatly appreciated.

[Jeff G]

You did not have a risk giving your BF a blow job . There have been no fewer than three separate serodiscordant couples studies (where one person is HIV positive, the other negative.) These couples were tracked for three. five and ten years. The couples used condoms for penetrative vaginal and anal sex, but NO BARRIER at all for oral sex. Any kind of oral sex.

These studies yielded NO infections.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

   Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv. Some of the other STIs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

[phoenix1317]

Thanks Jeff for your response. This website has been a huge help in calming my fears mostly because other websites just seem to fuel my fears with vague comments regarding the risks of oral sex. I'm staying off other sites until I can get tested in a few weeks. I have two questions:

1. Does deep throat increase the risk? I read on other sites that people should avoid deep throat because it increases the risk of transmission and can cause open cuts in the throat. When I read that I was kind of scared because that's what I did although not rough. But I'm not entirely sure if deep throat can actually cause cuts in the back of the throat and the tonsils, mostly because the tonsils are responsible for filtering out germs if I'm not mistaken. Never heard that.

2. Do most people who come onto the Am I Infected? part of the site who claim to have experienced ARS symptoms weeks after oral sex turn out to be negative? After carefully reading the forums for the last week before deciding to write my own post, I've come across people who coincidentally get sick shortly after a no to little risk situation and test negative. From your vast experiences as moderators, is this the norm?

[RapidRod]

1. No
2. No, HIV is not transmitted by oral sex and the only way to have ARS is to be infected.

[Joe K]

2. Do most people who come onto the Am I Infected? part of the site who claim to have experienced ARS symptoms weeks after oral sex turn out to be negative? After carefully reading the forums for the last week before deciding to write my own post, I've come across people who coincidentally get sick shortly after a no to little risk situation and test negative. From your vast experiences as moderators, is this the norm?

For some folks, the stress of possibly being infected can manifest itself in various symptoms.  That is why we do not discuss "symptoms" as they can have many causes and only testing will confirm your HIV status.  The real issue here is whether you can contract HIV through oral sex and the answer is NO.  Deep throating during oral does not increase any risk, because there is no risk in the first place.

Just be sure to use condoms, every time, for penetrative sex and you will avoid HIV.

Joe

[phoenix1317]

Might as well use my last free post with a few questions. First I must say, that this is not me questioning you guys about my risks. This is me being curious and naïve when it comes to HIV. I already read the transmission lessons but I’m still confused. I’m 1000% sure that you guys wouldn’t lie to people when it comes to risk assessments, why is why I confide complete trust in you guys.

1.I’m starting to believe that my sickness isn’t ARS and just a coincidence and I’ll tell you why. Yes, I have swollen lymph nodes in my neck and groin. Yet, my symptoms came on gradually. It was like one week I had a sore throat and swollen neck glands. Then a few days later, a tongue ulcer. Then a few days later, swollen lymph node in right side of groin, fatigue, and joint pains. Then a few days later, swollen node on left side of groin. And the symptoms come and go. It’s like my tongue ulcer (which hasn’t healed yet) will hurt for a day or two and then go away just to come back. The fatigue would go away and come back and so would the joint pains. The lymph nodes would stop hurting and then get tender again (from me touching them I presume). The sore throat went away and then comes back intermittently. I never had a fever or a rash. And my sore throat ended up being bacterial. From my understanding, a person who experiences ARS goes from no symptoms and feeling healthy to BAM sick with multiple symptoms all together. Is that true? Do the lymph nodes swell all at the same time or one after the other? Do the symptoms come and go or leave all together? If this is true, I’m pretty much convinced that my symptoms aren’t from ARS and was just coincidental.

2.How is it that when it comes to transmission of HIV via oral sex gay men are more likely to claim that oral sex was how they got it than females? I mean gay men and females are usually the receptive partners when it comes to fellatio. So why the difference?

3.If it’s a theoretical risk and theoretical is different than documented. Then why do websites say that there were documented cases of transmissions via receptive oral sex? Do they go by patient/case reports which are known to be unreliable? If that’s true then why do serodiscordant couples engage in unprotected oral sex if there was truly a risk? If it’s only theoretical and scientifically proven that oral sex is basically safer sex (in regards to HIV alone) then why do many people (even people on this site) claim that oral sex gave them HIV? I’ve even seen someone claim that RECEIVING oral sex was how they got it and also frottage! What gives?

4.Why do some sites insist that oral sex IS a risk for getting HIV and keep saying that there were documented cases if such cases don’t exist? Some even insist to avoid deep throat as that increases the risk. Is pre-cum enough to infect someone in regards to HIV if the amount of the virus found in it is not as high as semen and vaginal fluids? 

5.What about a guy who doesn’t know he has HIV or is seroconverting? Wouldn’t his viral load be through the roof where the chances are way way higher?

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and it would be greatly appreciated if someone responds. I’m still quite young and I never really learned about HIV in health class at school. Although I’ve brushed up on facts via the internet, admittedly I’m still kind of naïve and have got a lot more to learn in general. I don’t know anyone who has personally lived with HIV, which is why I’m here! Thanks!

[Ann]

phoenix,
 
1.I’m starting to believe that my sickness isn’t ARS and just a coincidence and I’ll tell you why.

Whatever. None of the symptoms you're fretting about are hiv-specific. Regarding your lymph glands, keep your hands off them. Touching, poking and prodding them all the time can MAKE them swell and keep them swollen. And no, the symptoms of primary hiv do not come and go. Sometimes they never come at all, despite a person having been infected.

Symptoms - or even the LACK of symptoms - will NEVER tell you a single thing about your hiv status. ONLY testing will. Your tests indicate that you do not have hiv.

2.How is it that when it comes to transmission of HIV via oral sex gay men are more likely to claim that oral sex was how they got it than females? I mean gay men and females are usually the receptive partners when it comes to fellatio. So why the difference?

Some men don't like to admit to receptive anal intercourse because it is looked down on by some in society as being weak, less of a man, and/or being submissive (more to the point, not dominant). They'd much rather admit to giving blowjobs. It's a macho-man-thing, honey. Most of us women shake our heads over it so you're not alone there.

A lot of people do not regard oral sex as "real" sex. For example, President Clinton famously said, "I did not have sex with that woman." He didn't regard that blowjob in the Oval Office as having sex. This quirk of human nature can allow people, particularly men, to claim (for example) that they weren't being unfaithful. "It wasn't sex, it was just a blowjob." This alleviates a person's feelings of shame, guilt and culpability.

3.If it’s a theoretical risk and theoretical is different than documented. Then why do websites say that there were documented cases of transmissions via receptive oral sex? Do they go by patient/case reports which are known to be unreliable? If that’s true then why do serodiscordant couples engage in unprotected oral sex if there was truly a risk? If it’s only theoretical and scientifically proven that oral sex is basically safer sex (in regards to HIV alone) then why do many people (even people on this site) claim that oral sex gave them HIV? I’ve even seen someone claim that RECEIVING oral sex was how they got it and also frottage! What gives?

In addition to what I said about this above, sometimes people don't like to admit to doing what is absolutely known, without a doubt, to lead to hiv infection - unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse - because they feel people will judge them for being "stupid" (ie, "shoulda known better!") or whatever.

Sometimes they can't even admit it to themselves due to self-judgement and internalised stigma. They'll fall back on claiming oral transmission - and insist they were mislead about its safety, thereby making them a victim rather than an idiot. (Please note that I am not calling anyone stupid or an idiot - I'm making observations about people's perceptions.)

Sometimes people forget exactly what they did while under the influence of drink and/or drugs.

Sometimes people just lie.

And yes, many of the sites that claim oral is a risk go by the notoriously unreliable patient report studies. Those patient report studies were blown out of the water by the three studies that followed poz/neg couples for years and found no cases of oral transmission.

Many sites also do not differentiate between the different types of oral and just lump them all into one. This causes a lot of confusion as well.

The bottom line is this - if you've got terrible oral health, you may want to think twice about blowing some random guy. If he's unknowingly hiv positive, with a sky-high viral load, then you might, might, end up being unlucky, even though the odds are stacked against oral transmission.

4.Why do some sites insist that oral sex IS a risk for getting HIV and keep saying that there were documented cases if such cases don’t exist? Some even insist to avoid deep throat as that increases the risk. Is pre-cum enough to infect someone in regards to HIV if the amount of the virus found in it is not as high as semen and vaginal fluids? 

It's very telling that there has never been a documented case of oral transmission in a woman, despite there being more women who give blowjobs world-wide than there are men. I've never even come across a case of a woman claiming (patient report) to have been infected through giving blowjobs. Very, very telling.

Many sites use the term "documented" incorrectly. Documented does not mean that a patient told their doctor (patient report) how they think they got infected and the doctor wrote it down (documented what the patient said), it means that genotype and other tests were run on both persons involved and the virus was confirmed to have come from the source the newly diagnosed person said it did. Even a case of transmission documented in this manner cannot verify that transmission took place during oral. I've yet to come across (in nearly 13 years of doing this work) a properly documented, in the correct sense of the term, case of oral transmission.

5.What about a guy who doesn’t know he has HIV or is seroconverting? Wouldn’t his viral load be through the roof where the chances are way way higher?

In a word, yes. However, that's only one part of the picture.

Basically, the person giving the blowjob would also have to have bad oral health, in addition to their partner having a high viral load.

You see, the mouth isn't a good place for hiv. For a start, saliva contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. This makes the mouth a very inhospitable environment for fragile hiv. (Hiv is very fragile when outside of the cells it inhabits in the body)

Hiv can only infect a very few, very specific types of cells and these cells are not found in abundance in the mouth.

If hiv cannot remain intact (undamaged) long enough to bump into (it cannot move on its own) and latch onto the (not easy to find) correct cell, it cannot infect.

The time someone might have more of the correct types of cells present in their mouth is if they have oral problems such as meth-mouth (google it) or perhaps another STI in their oral cavity such as gonorrhea or syphilis.

In other words, you'd have to have a shit-storm of factors all going on in order for oral transmission to be feasible. Take care of your oral health and you won't have to worry about it.

For the record, the areas of the body where the correct types of cells are found are in the lining of the anus and vagina, the lining of the urethra (where you pee from), and the inner lining of the foreskin (the part you cannot see when the penis is not erect and the foreskin is folded over the head). They're also found within the blood stream, but hiv needs to be directly injected into a vein or artery in order for this to be a concern.

Keep getting at least yearly sexual health check ups (including a PAP smear every few years, and make sure you know how to examine your own breasts), and make sure any guy you have sex with is wearing a condom until such time as you're mutually monogamous and have BOTH tested for all STIs, and you'll be just fine where hiv is concerned.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. You can have all the sex you want, with as many guys as you like, provided he is wearing a condom. It really is that simple!!!

Ann



edited to fix typos and formatting errors