Author Topic: McCain unsure condoms stop HIV (Read 7523 times)

twofires · « **on:** March 16, 2007, 08:36:14 pm »

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/16/mccain-stumbles-on-hiv-prevention/

SOMEWHERE in NORTHERN IOWA — The unthinkable has happened. Senator John McCain met a question, while sitting with reporters on his bus as it rumbled through Iowa today, that he couldn’t – or perhaps wouldn’t – answer.

Did he support the distribution of taxpayer-subsidized condoms in Africa to fight the transmission of H.I.V.?

What followed was a long series of awkward pauses, glances up to the ceiling and the image of one of Mr. McCain’s aides, standing off to the back, urgently motioning his press secretary to come to Mr. McCain’s side.

The upshot was that Mr. McCain said he did not know this subject well, did not know his position on it, and relied on the advice of Senator Tom Coburn, a physician and Republican from Oklahoma.

His press secretary, Brian Jones, later reported that Mr. McCain had a record of voting against using government money to finance the distribution of condoms.

All this took place on the second day of the reprise of the “Straight Talk Express” bus trips that Mr. McCain made a central part of his campaign in 2000. It also comes as Mr. McCain has eagerly been trying to ease strains with social conservatives in the party who, for the most part, do not support using government money to pay for condoms.

A transcript of the encounter follows. (Weaver is John Weaver, his senior adviser, and Brian is Mr. Jones, his press secretary):

Reporter: “Should U.S. taxpayer money go to places like Africa to fund contraception to prevent AIDS?”

Mr. McCain: “Well I think it’s a combination. The guy I really respect on this is Dr. Coburn. He believes – and I was just reading the thing he wrote– that you should do what you can to encourage abstinence where there is going to be sexual activity. Where that doesn’t succeed, than he thinks that we should employ contraceptives as well. But I agree with him that the first priority is on abstinence. I look to people like Dr. Coburn. I’m not very wise on it.”

(Mr. McCain turns to take a question on Iraq, but a moment later looks back to the reporter who asked him about AIDS.)

Mr. McCain: “I haven’t thought about it. Before I give you an answer, let me think about. Let me think about it a little bit because I never got a question about it before. I don’t know if I would use taxpayers’ money for it.”

Q: “What about grants for sex education in the United States? Should they include instructions about using contraceptives? Or should it be Bush’s policy, which is just abstinence?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “Ahhh. I think I support the president’s policy.”

Q: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”

Q: “I mean, I think you’d probably agree it probably does help stop it?”

Mr. McCain: (Laughs) “Are we on the Straight Talk express? I’m not informed enough on it. Let me find out. You know, I’m sure I’ve taken a position on it on the past. I have to find out what my position was. Brian, would you find out what my position is on contraception – I’m sure I’m opposed to government spending on it, I’m sure I support the president’s policies on it.”

Q: “But you would agree that condoms do stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Would you say: ‘No, we’re not going to distribute them,’ knowing that?”

Mr. McCain: (Twelve-second pause) “Get me Coburn’s thing, ask Weaver to get me Coburn’s paper that he just gave me in the last couple of days. I’ve never gotten into these issues before.”

This went on for a few more moments until a reporter from the Chicago Tribune broke in and asked Mr. McCain about the weight of a pig that he saw at the Iowa State Fair last year.

aupointillimite · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2007, 08:42:17 pm »

Well, there's one silver lining to this cloud.

A politician... and a United States Senator nonetheless... publicly said, "I don't know."

I kinda want to throw him a party.

twofires · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2007, 08:45:07 pm »

i kinda just threw up a little bit in my mouth...

milker · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2007, 08:45:37 pm »

That's what we get when the same people advise against sex ed. $:-\$

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2007, 08:48:40 pm »

thank goodness that reporter saved his ass by following up with a question about a pig's weight at the Iowa State Fair

aupointillimite · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2007, 08:50:27 pm »

Quote from: philly267 on March 16, 2007, 08:48:40 pm

thank goodness that reporter saved his ass by following up with a question about a pig's weight at the Iowa State Fair

For real real.

If that reporter hadn't done that... that transcript would have been 35% more excruciating to read.

twofires · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2007, 08:50:43 pm »

Saved by the Bland!

aupointillimite · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2007, 08:55:08 pm »

Quote from: twofires on March 16, 2007, 08:50:43 pm

Saved by the Bland!

... or the Ham.

twofires · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2007, 09:13:34 pm »

fat pigs....

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2007, 10:51:29 pm »

BACON!

Bucko · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2007, 02:48:30 am »

You know, it's not as if I had any intentions of voting for him anyway, but this still made me really depressed when I read it. It makes me wonder what kind of representation we'd get if anyone actually understood the mechanics of our daily lives.

<sigh>
Brent
(Who had hopes for just a second)

Coffeechick88 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2007, 07:44:20 am »

This isn't anything someone should be surprised at. I do believe Mccain has an opinion and he just doesn't have the balls to come out and say it. He has been trying to court the conservatives in the voting and so he can't very well say he is for contraceptives. Powerful people like James Dobson already hate him since they consider him soft on issues like abortion, so I really think he is afraid of losing any hope of their support. Not that i would vote for him in a million years.

Andy Velez · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2007, 08:26:55 am »

This is what ignorance we're up against.

In the 26th official year of a pandemic which has killed an estimated 25 to 35 million people, (depending on who's doing the counting), a prominent presidential candidate doesn't care enough about HIV/AIDS to know that condoms provide very effective protection against HIV transmission. Whatever his "beliefs," he ought to at least know the basics.

Would someone please refer him to our Transmission lesson.

The problem is that his real "belief" is wanting to get elected. He's just another case of terminal presidential lust, an illness for which there is no known vaccine or cure.

Dachshund · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2007, 09:06:20 am »

Here's what they think about McCain in the heartland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KijN8e-AH4

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2007, 10:13:39 am »

Quote from: Coffeechick88 on March 17, 2007, 07:44:20 am

This isn't anything someone should be surprised at. I do believe Mccain has an opinion and he just doesn't have the balls to come out and say it. He has been trying to court the conservatives in the voting and so he can't very well say he is for contraceptives. Powerful people like James Dobson already hate him since they consider him soft on issues like abortion, so I really think he is afraid of losing any hope of their support. Not that i would vote for him in a million years.

... but ... but ... he was sitting on the Straight Talk Express!

(totally agree with you)

jack · « **Reply #15 on:** March 19, 2007, 07:58:42 am »

Don't forget, Lurch wanted McCain as VP and no self respecting conservative would ever vote for anyone who spends so much time with Chris Matthews. Dont ever get between McCain and a TV camera.
Is it more difficult to abstain or put on a rubber? Just wondering, I hate both. Does one take more discipline than the other? I dont think abstinence means never having sex, but rubbers mean always. Whats wrong with teaching abstinence as well as rubbers?

aupointillimite · « **Reply #16 on:** March 19, 2007, 08:05:57 am »

Quote from: jack on March 19, 2007, 07:58:42 am

Whats wrong with teaching abstinence as well as rubbers?

Nothing whatsoever.

The statement, "if you choose to abstain from sex, your risk of contracting a disease through sexual intercourse is absolutely zero" is 100% true. Of course, if you choose to abstain from driving, your chances of dying in a car accident are zero... and if you choose to abstain from eating, your chances of dying from botulism are zero.

I just object to moral and religious assertions that almost always seems to rear their head in abstinence education. If that could be avoided by certains religious nuts, I'd be all for saying, "Don't want HIV? Either 1) abstain from sex, or 2) wear a condom... and here's the proper way to use one." Don't scare the kiddies... present the facts, present prevention measures, present proper procedures for using said measures if applicable, and move on.

jack · « **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2007, 08:13:07 am »

I agree but remember the stats from London a few weeks ago? Fuck what the religious right thinks, everyone should be for both abstinence teaching and rubbers. You shouldnt be opposed to something just because religious right or some other group you do not agree with supports it. I consider abstinence teaching more a route to moderation in sex(not having sex with every person you meet) than a road to salvation. Otherwise you better always have a rubber on your person and discipline to use it when required.

aupointillimite · « **Reply #18 on:** March 19, 2007, 08:20:33 am »

I just said that I supported abstinence education.

With two teensy caveats.

1. Always present it side-by-side with STD prevention education that helps those who choose to be sexually active.
2. Do not talk about or insinuate anything about abstinence's alleged moral superiority to any other form of STD prevention.

Personally, I think it's something of a shame the religious right has gotten their paws all over abstinence education... because it makes one look like an uneducated rube to say anything in favor of it. Guilt by association and all that.

jack · « **Reply #19 on:** March 19, 2007, 08:42:45 am »

uneducated rubes? are you saying Christians are uneducated? Thats equivalent to saying homosexuality is evil.
Now I will say I do view most of the people in the audiences at Olsteens or other religious grifters churches to be rubes or very troubled and ignorant people but no different than anyone who vote for a democrat. Just kidding.

aupointillimite · « **Reply #20 on:** March 19, 2007, 08:56:01 am »

Quote from: jack on March 19, 2007, 08:42:45 am

uneducated rubes? are you saying Christians are uneducated? Thats equivalent to saying homosexuality is evil.
Now I will say I do view most of the people in the audiences at Olsteens or other religious grifters churches to be rubes or very troubled and ignorant people but no different than anyone who vote for a democrat. Just kidding.

Oh Jesus Christ...

I'm not getting into a discussion vis-a-vis my views on Christianity.

But I will say that the vast majority of calls for abstinence education comes from those who would like abstinence taught at the expense of other forms of STD prevention. And in the Western World this impulse stems primarily from a train of Christian thought that was started by Saint Paul and expounded upon most notably by Saint Augustine. It remains alive and well in Roman Catholic and many fundamentalist Protestant denominations. The association and demand for abstinence is cemented in 1,900 years of Christian theology... so I don't think that I was pulling that particular correlation out of my ass.

But to encourage abstinence-only education as the only proper way to educate people about sex is ignorant and dangerous. And I don't care if you're Saint Augustine or Madalyn Murray O'Hair calling for it.

jack · « **Reply #21 on:** March 19, 2007, 09:03:56 am »

Catholic priest have only had the abstinence thing going for the past 1000 years. They had to do something,the pervs at the Vatican were screwing every woman and man in sight and the their massive orgies were legendary. This led to a decrease in money coming in,so they started the abstinence thing. Thats my theory.
I agree with you

aupointillimite · « **Reply #22 on:** March 19, 2007, 09:07:06 am »

Quote from: jack on March 19, 2007, 09:03:56 am

Catholic priest have only had the abstinence thing going for the past 1000 years. They had to do something,the pervs at the Vatican were screwing every woman and man in sight and the their massive orgies were legendary. This led to a decrease in money coming in,so they started the abstinence thing. Thats my theory.
I agree with you

You should read about what St. Anselm did to the monks when he was Archbishop of Canterbury in the 11th century.

Good times!

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #23 on:** March 19, 2007, 02:15:40 pm »

Quote from: jack on March 19, 2007, 08:42:45 am

uneducated rubes? are you saying Christians are uneducated?

Not all Christians are fundamentalists. It's the fundie sect that hates science. And while I'd not label them necessarily uneducated, I would label them misinformed on many things. It's what happens when one is so dogmatic.

Rhino · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2007, 06:11:47 pm »

Quote from: philly267 on March 19, 2007, 02:15:40 pm

Not all Christians are fundamentalists. It's the fundie sect that hates science. And while I'd not label them necessarily uneducated, I would label them misinformed on many things. It's what happens when one is so dogmatic.

Well said. I believe in abstinence, especially for young people. I also believe condoms have been SCIENTIFICALLY proven to consistently prevent not only HIV transmission but many other STD's and pregnancy as well. For a politician (or religious leader for that matter) not to know, or pretend not to know the importance of condoms in the fight against HIV is ridiculous.

RH
(Who loves God and Science)

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Author Topic: McCain unsure condoms stop HIV (Read 7523 times)