incident with prostitute

[nickasm]

i am 18 uncircumcised and some time ago i received oral sex from a prostitute with a TONGUE PIERCING(barbel)
i know in these forums oral sex is considered safe but what if the person giving has injuries on her mouth

i read most people who have barbel for more than 2 years have receding gum and injuries on their mouth

here is my question:
assuming my foreskin touched a lesion in her mouth for a brief time (1second)
is there any chance of  contracting hiv?
does it need more time of touching or the time plays no role at all?

[RapidRod]

i am 18 uncircumcised and some time ago i received oral sex from a prostitute with a TONGUE PIERCING(barbel)
i know in these forums oral sex is considered safe but what if the person giving has injuries on her mouth

i read most people who have barbel for more than 2 years have receding gum and injuries on their mouth

here is my question:
assuming my foreskin touched a lesion in her mouth for a brief time (1second)
is there any chance of  contracting hiv?
does it need more time of touching or the time plays no role at all?

At no time were you ever at risk of contracting HIV. Saliva is non-infectious and contains over a dozen different enzymes and proteins that inhibits HIV transmission.

[nickasm]

so the only protection i had was saliva?sounds like a weak defense...what if there were little amounts of saliva or no saliva at that part of her mouth at the time

what about the air in the oral cavity?can that kill hiv on the surface of the mouth?

[RapidRod]

Take the time to read the posting guidelines.

[nickasm]

wow thanks...

[nickasm]

so...does anyone else has something to add?

[Andy Velez]

Nick, it doesn't matter what special details you throw into the mix when considering getting a blowjob in terms of HIV transmission. Getting oral is one of the most common of sexual activities. In the entire history of the epidemic there has never been a confirmed cast of transmission via a guy getting a blowjob.

It's safe to say you are not going to make history by becoming the first.

The only confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. That's it. Use condoms every time for those activities and you will be well protected. It's really just that simple.

You have no cause for concern about HIV this time.

[jkinatl2]

so the only protection i had was saliva?sounds like a weak defense...what if there were little amounts of saliva or no saliva at that part of her mouth at the time

what about the air in the oral cavity?can that kill hiv on the surface of the mouth?

Your "only" protection is the body's first and best line of defense against oral microorganisms, bacteria and viruses. Don't discount it.

NO ONE has ever gotten HIV from getting a blowjob. Ever. You wil not make medical history by being the first.

Use a condom for penetrative vaginal and anal sex and you will avoid HIV. Not other, more robust STDs, but ABSOLUTELY HIV.

[nickasm]

thanks for the responses but much of my questions remain unanswered like:
assuming she had lesions on the roof or gums of her mouth is it really impossible for that lesion to not be covered in saliva  or covered in an insufficient amount of saliva?
in that case could the air of the oral cavity kill the virus?
is mucus to foreskin transmission possible?
also i might have cleaned my foreskin with alcohol some hours before the incident,

i dont know if these questions are valid medically but they seem reasonable to me

[Matty the Damned]

thanks for the responses but much of my questions remain unanswered like:
assuming she had lesions on the roof or gums of her mouth is it really impossible for that lesion to not be covered in saliva  or covered in an insufficient amount of saliva?
in that case could the air of the oral cavity kill the virus?
is mucus to foreskin transmission possible?
also i might have cleaned my foreskin with alcohol some hours before the incident,

i dont know if these questions are valid medically but they seem reasonable to me

Hey Nick,

I'm gonna spell this out for you once. The whole AIDS thing.

HIV is a delicate virus. It's spread in particular ways. Those ways are:

Unprotected anal sex. Either way.

Unprotected vaginal sex. Either way.

Sharing contaminated injecting equipment such as needles or syringes with an HIV positive person.

Occasionally a mother with HIV might transmit the virus to her unborn or breastfeeding baby.

Do you fit any of these criteria?

No, you don't.  So dry up. You don't have AIDS.

And don't push the issue. This isn't a "discussion".

Ya dig?

MtD

[nickasm]

30 days after a somewhat risky  exposure i had diarrhea fever and vomit which lasted approximately 4 days...is it common for ars to last only 4 days?
at first i thought it was just gastroenteritis

8 months later i started getting sore throats and colds all the time
i know its winter and i never really had a strong immune system but i dont remember it being that weak
could it be a result of hiv?

[Matty the Damned]

30 days after a somewhat risky  exposure i had diarrhea fever and vomit which lasted approximately 4 days...is it common for ars to last only 4 days?
at first i thought it was just gastroenteritis

8 months later i started getting sore throats and colds all the time
i know its winter and i never really had a strong immune system but i dont remember it being that weak
could it be a result of hiv?

Nope. It sounds like you're a person who cannot follow our rules.

You are required to keep all your questions, comments and dreary thoughts in your Original Thread

Please return to your Original Thread. Your questions will not be answered until you do.

MtD

[nickasm]

i posted another thread with my symptoms
it hard for me to explain the constant sore throats for weeks when i mostly stay in my apartment with 31 temperature

[Matty the Damned]

i posted another thread with my symptoms
it hard for me to explain the constant sore throats for weeks when i mostly stay in my apartment with 31 temperature

Yeah, I read that thread and kicked you in your ass.

Keep ALL your comments, questions and other stuff in THIS thread.

Or face the Wrath of Ann.

MtD

[nickasm]

i guess the mod can merge the threads but i thought it would be appropriate to make a different one
i see you changed the cuss words now...

[nickasm]

Yeah, I read that thread and kicked you in your ass.

Keep ALL your comments, questions and other stuff in THIS thread.

Or face the Wrath of Ann.

MtD

funny you mention the rules when you are the one swearing all the time
this language is part of the rules too?

[Matty the Damned]

i guess the mod can merge the threads but i thought it would be appropriate to make a different one
i see you changed the cuss words now...

Return to your thread.

And, by the way, I never cuss.

MtD

[Matty the Damned]

funny you mention the rules when you are the one swearing all the time
this language is part of the rules too?

Swear? Oh honey, you have no idea.

Your questions have been answered. We've read all that crap about lesions and oral cavities and such like and so on.

You were not at risk of infection with HIV. You don't need to be tested for HIV.

MtD

[nickasm]

i am pretty sure you called me a douchebag before you edited your post but oh well...add hallucinations in the symptom list then

anyways i am not here to argue i just want to find out whats going on and get back on track

[Matty the Damned]

i am pretty sure you called me a douchebag before you edited your post but oh well...add hallucinations in the symptom list then

anyways i am not here to argue i just want to find out whats going on and get back on track

Well I'm just as sure I didn't call you a douchebag. The AIDSmeds rules are clear about that sort of stuff.

You might be a douchebag, but I can't call you that.

And if I had changed my posts there would be an edit token in my messages.

I have already answered your questions.

In your original thread.

MtD

[nickasm]

i mostly want to hear what andy velez and jkinatl2 have to say on this
as they often use scientific evidence to back up their statements

[Matty the Damned]

i mostly want to hear what andy velez and jkinatl2 have to say on this
as they often use scientific evidence to back up their statements

One or both of them will be along presently to address your concerns.

Incidentally, if you are unhappy with any of my comments, you can always click the Report to Moderator link.

Best regards,

MtD

[nickasm]

sorry if i was mistaken even though i doubt i was

[Andy Velez]

Nick, I have merged your threads here. In the future please follow the rule of the site as detailed in the opening thread to only write in this same thread. Do not begin any new threads.

You were already told earlier that the incident which brought you here was not "somewhat risk," but rather that it was a non-risk. As you have been told, no guy has ever been confirmed to have been infected through receiving oral, including if the giver had a tongue piercing.

 Only unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse are confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV. Use condoms for those everytime and you will be well protected.

You are worrying needlessly. Give it up and get on with your life.

[nickasm]

from what i read there are numerous reports on oral sex transmission is just the validity of these reports is doubted cause the patient might be lying...
also the oral sex risk could be covered from other kind of unprotected sexual activities
is that correct?

[Andy Velez]

Although I don't quite get the point you are trying to make the bottom line is the same: receiving oral is one of the most common of sexual activities. To date there has not been a single confirmed case of transmission to a man through his receiving a blowjob.

People don't necessarily lie about their experiences. Sometimes it's faulty memory and sometimes it's having been under the influence of drugs or liquor which affect the accuracy of what is being reported.

Whatever the cause of faulty reporting, it is still safe to say you will not make history by becoming the first to be infected in that manner.

It's a non-risk and you need to let go of this unwarranted fear. I cannot make the matter clearer than that.

[jkinatl2]

I've already chimed in regarding your no-risk incident. I can't imagine having anything to add. Try searching these forums using the term "oral" and you'll find more scientific evidence than you could ever need. We only use first tiered peer reviewed scientific data to make our assessments. In my humble opinion, this site is the absolute cutting edge of HIV transmission theory - based risk assessment.

You have indeed received state of the art risk assessment.

And there is absolutely no HIV concern whatsoever in the events as you described them.

[nickasm]

Although I don't quite get the point you are trying to make

what i am trying to say is that its possible other people got infected through oral sex but their cases have been discarded due to low credibility or their cases have been shadowed t because there were practicing other kinds of unprotected sex

And there is absolutely no HIV concern whatsoever in the events as you described them

even if we suppose there was a lesion in her mouth not covered in saliva?

i am trying to forget about this but i have a hard time explaining why i get  sick with sore throats and sinusitis all the time
and now i have 2 canker sores in my mouth

[jkinatl2]

I am not at all sure what scientific studies you think have been conducted regarding HIV transmission theory, but they have, in the last thirty years, been exhaustive.

We have systematically narrowed down the means by which HIV is transmitted. The growing existence of serodiscordant couples (where one partner is positive and one is negative) only helped cement scientific study that had been  proven in the lab, in primate study, and even to a degree in the VERY soft science of patient report.

There have been no verifiable documented cases of HIV being transmitted through any sexual activity other than penetrative anal and vaginal sex.

As you know, oral sex can mean four different things. Sucking, getting sucked, performing oral sex on a female, or being a female and having oral sex performed on you.

Of these four things, the ONLY subject of ANY controversy remains sucking/swallowing semen.

However, since the advent of HAART treatment to arrest HIV replication, there have been numerous studies of serodiscordant couples (again, thats where one  person is positive and one is negative)

These stories took place on two continents over the span of fifteen years, and followed couples with low/undetectable viral loads/on meds as well as those with HIV viral loads who were not yet on medication.

The result? Not a single transmission so long as the couples correctly and consistently used condoms for anal and vaginal sex. Not one.

One of the criteria of the studies was that the couples admitted to having used condoms ONLY for penetrative sex, NOT for oral sex. This admission, this criteria successfully removed the barrier of inaccurate patient report after the fact. insofar as oral sex was concerned.

Here are the studies in question:



No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan
Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117
Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

[nickasm]

in these studies though there is no mention of the oral health of these people(receding gums lesions)

i do realize transmission through intact oral mucosa is extremely unlikely probably impossible but what about in the case of inflamed tissue etc?

[jkinatl2]

It has never been recorded. It has never been documented. It has not been brought to the table.

I am sorry this site seems to have failed you.

You had absolutely no risk.

What you present is nothing less than a perpetuation of the stigma for HIV positive persons. I know you don't mean to do this, but this is where you are at.

I have no further scientific evidence to present to you - therefore I have no further means by which to continue this conversation. Take an HIV test at three months, assuming even that science is not beyond scrutiny. Collect your negative test result and resolve never again to trust your genitals to the manipulations of another person. This is the only assured safe sex in the known universe.

[nickasm]

i am not racist and have never been one

i thought about testing but i wont feel so comfortable with the nurses and the people doing the test

[Ann]

Nick,

I edited your post to remove the references to and cut and paste articles from an hiv denialist website that you posted. Posting denialist mis-information on these forums is grounds for being permanently banned, so if you want to remain a member here, DO NOT EVER post crap from them again.

Hiv denialist are responsible for the unnecessary deaths of many hiv positive individuals. They have no place in this forum.

If you want to know why the hiv denialist are so WRONG and so DANGEROUS, please read through the http://www.aidstruth.org/ website.

You did not have a risk for hiv infection. There has never, ever been a single case of transmission through getting blown and you are not going to be the first.

While some people have claimed to have been infected through GIVING blowjobs, no one has EVER claimed to have been infected while GETTING a blowjob.

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or NO RISK SITUATION, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Please consider yourself warned!

Ann

[nickasm]

sorry i edited the post again before reading yours but didnt add the link

i specifically mention i doubt the reliability of these sites but they seem to be many...

[Ann]

Nick,

There are plenty of conspiracy theory websites out there on many subjects, including hiv. Just because there are a lot of them does not make them credible.

As I said, hiv denialists are dangerous people and have caused the deaths of far too many positive people who wanted desperately to believe that hiv does not result in aids and death. The ideas of the denialists are driven by STIGMA.

Your irrational fear of being infected when you got a blowjob is also driven by STIGMA. I'm pretty sure that if your sexual experience had not been with a sex worker, you probably would not have given it a second thought.

Your time out warning stands.

You have NOT had a risk for hiv infection.

Ann

[nickasm]

this whole thing happened 8 months ago so i really dont think its the stigma
i started searching it might be hiv a few weeks ago cause i keep getting sore throats again and again and then i got draged into this
i went to the doc and he said i ve been through a pharyngitis but he  sees nothing more
i still keep on getting sore throats and colds

[Ann]

Nick,

As this happened eight months ago, and as you cannot seem to bring yourself to believe us when we REPEATEDLY tell you that you did NOT have a risk, then just go test and collect your conclusive negative result. Eight months is far too long to torture yourself over this NO RISK blowjob.

You got your dick sucked and it's high time you got over it.

I'm giving you that time out you've been warned about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Ann