Hiv from performing oral sex and swallowing precum

[Jsnow3312]

Hi I have had a lot of sleepless nights the past few days and I need to know a few things. First here is my story. I am a very shy persona and a very introverted person so I don't meet many people. I have never had sex or kissed someone on the lips other than members of my family. This has recently started to take a toll on my emotional state. I consider myself straight but my shyness was getting to the point where my line of thinking was that I would never meet women that would want me. This made me start thinking about the alternative. I recently found Craigslist casual personals and began searching those. I posted an ad in la this weekend and found a 22 year old gay Latino man who sent me an e-mail that basically said "I'm 22 gay looking to hang out, safe clean and laid back" we started to text each other and made up a time to meet at my hotel room. I asked him if he had done this before and he laughed and said he was gay but said he had only met someone in a hotel twice before. He comes to my room and asks to use the bathroom and I can hear him peeing, what does this mean? Then he asks me what I have done before and If I’m married and I told me never have I done anything before and I’m not married. He then said we need to turn the lights off (this worried me for some reason, why would he want to do that? Is it because he is trying to hide something?) We get naked and I inspect his body it is very smooth and clean without any marks that I can see and no open soars. He then starts performing oral sex calmly. I then start to perform oral sex on him. He was uncut and that worries me a little. I also tasted something funny when I first started to suck. I don't know if it was urine or precum, I assume it was precum. The taste was funny so I kind of resisted swallowing and kept whatever it was in my mouth. I then swallowed a little bit of it and eventually all of it. There was also lots of my saliva at this point. The amount of what I think was precum was very little, I didn't feel like I could even swish it around my mouth or anything it was just a funny taste. I didn't enjoy it at all, I could barely stay hard and wasn’t into this at all. I don't think he was either, so neither of us came in each others mouth other than precum. We then jerked ourselves off and he leaves. There was no kissing no anal no ejaculation other than the precum I tasted or at least think I tasted. My mouth didn’t have any open soars on it or cuts and my gums only bleed a little when I floss heavily. I didn’t brush until after the encounter was over and then it was about 10 mins after he left when I did brush.

However over the last few days I've felt this panic that now I have hiv and it has been very bad, I haven’t been able to sleep well and I am very scared. I texted the man I did this with and asked him are you "100% sure you are free" I think I made him mad with my barrage of texts and he responded "stop texting me and not I’m not 100% sure."

I have been reading this site as well as tons of others and the medical sites say that I may be at risk because of the precum from his penis if he is hiv pos. I'm not sure if he is but I am going to assume so since I hear that most people with hiv don't know they have it and if that I can assume since this guy is on craigslist that it is a real possibility due to the extreme risk of hooking up on craigslist.

But then I read on this site and others that say there is a ZERO risk chance that I have gotten hiv. Can you please help me. Why do you guys say no but when I read medical sites they act like it is a 50 50 shot?

[RapidRod]

You were never at risk of contracting HIV from oral sex.

[Jsnow3312]

You were never at risk of contracting HIV from oral sex.

Even oral both ways? You seem very sure about that. I've ready websites that say there is risk and that it can happen. What do you base your opinion on?

[RapidRod]

Scientific studies.

[Jsnow3312]

My concern was that I think there was precum involved and I kept it in my mouth for a few mins. What if I had micro cuts in my mouth?

[jkinatl2]

RapidRod, Ann, Andy and others base this assessment on over twenty years of accumulated first tiered peer reviewed scientific evidence. Doing a search on this site's forums for threads labeled "oral sex,"  especially those threads of some length, will point out posts that go into the in-depth discussion of the romero and page-shafer studies that were published in the early 2000's and which helped further narrow the vectors for HIV transmission.

[Jsnow3312]

Statistically what is the risk? Are we talking like getting struck by lightning?

[Ann]

J,

We're talking getting hit by a meteorite.

Ann

[jkinatl2]

You know I would have to talk about that one, Ann

There have been two cases where people have been reported to have been hit by meteorites this century. One was pretty well documented, the other might or might not have been a piece of airplane debris or another phenomena (raining toads, anyone?).

In the groundbreaking couples' studies which took place throughout the 90s and were published in 2002 and 2005, not a single case of HIV from performing oral sex (or having oral sex performed on a person) male or female, was reported.

This involved couples who signed on because they used condoms for anal and vaginal sex, but not oral sex. And not a single case of seroconversion occurred in the romero study. I believe that the two (?) seroconversions in the page-shafer studies were attributed to condom failure. This is from a thousands of (estimated) oral acts over fifteen years of combined study.

How do you quantify an event that has yet to be scientifically documented? Sure, people claim to get HIV from oral sex (even precum) but study after study has shown this cannot be replicated in a controlled environment.

So why do people make claims like that? well, the stigma around homosexual activity, the threat to masculinity that seems to accompany receptive anal sex, the use of drugs and/or alcohol, psychological issues of all sorts. And just plain denial.

Like Ann almost always responds when asked about the odds in ANY circumstance:

How Long Is A Piece Of String?


*edited for spelling

[Jsnow3312]

ok well that makes me feel better. Maybe this whole situation was a way to knock some sense into me.

I'm still going to get tested just to be sure.

[coolstone25]

edited to remove wrong/misleading misinformation.

[Andy Velez]

Coolstone, I am sure your intentions are good. However, only those who are authorized to respond in this section may do. Please don't do it again. Thanks for your cooperation.

We also avoid being presumptuous here such as advocating monogamy. We prefer to say that everyone should be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse unless they are in a securely monogamous relationship in which both partners have reliably tested negative at the same time.

[Jsnow3312]

About cuts in the mouth and having precum in my mouth.

I didn't have an big open sores or any bleeding in my mouth but what about veins or very tiny microscopic cuts that i don't know about from brushing to hard the night before or something?

[coolstone25]

Coolstone, I am sure your intentions are good. However, only those who are authorized to respond in this section may do. Please don't do it again. Thanks for your cooperation.

We also avoid being presumptuous here such as advocating monogamy. We prefer to say that everyone should be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse unless they are in a securely monogamous relationship in which both partners have reliably tested negative at the same time.

Dear Andy, Thank you, I shall not post here again. Just to clarify though, I wasn't advocating/espousing monogamy. Not at all. I especially dont have a right to. I was simply stating what was on the boards and information bulletins of the department of health clinics in NYC as a marker to reduce risks. I agree people must use condoms and unless they are in a secure monogamous relationship where both have tested negative beforehand. Absolutely agree. Thanks and goodbye.

[Jsnow3312]

Did you guys see my above post about cuts and things?

[jkinatl2]

I did, and that is why only certain people are authorized to post responses in this forum. The information that person provided was inaccurate,  outdated, and wrong. And the poster was asked to refrain from posting here again. He did not, I notice, strictly adhere to that warning.

But our assessment is based not on some poster we saw in a New york Health Department bulletin, but on first-tiered peer-reviewed information that is up to date, credible, verifiable and accurate.

[Andy Velez]

Yes, we did. Saliva is an extremely effective inhibitor of HIV and preventing its transmission in a viable form.

Precum is only a "theoretical" risk. I don't know of a single confirmed case of transmission in that manner.

You are worrying yourself needlessly. Really.

[Jsnow3312]

Should I even get an hiv test because of this and if I should when should I?

[Matty the Damned]

Should I even get an hiv test because of this and if I should when should I?

I wouldn't get a test over this if I were in your situation. What you do, however, is a matter for you.

When should you test? Given there's no real risk here, whenever you like as the result will be negative. But if you want to follow proper protocol then you should test 13 weeks from the date of the encounter.

MtD

[Jsnow3312]

well you guys make it seem like this isn't a big deal and that its zero risk. But I still have a bad feeling I can't shake.

[Matty the Damned]

well you guys make it seem like this isn't a big deal and that its zero risk. But I still have a bad feeling I can't shake.

This has been explained to you in detail.

Nothing in life is zero risk. For example the chances of your house being flattened by a meteorite the size of a small car are not zero, but how likely do you think that is? Moreoever does that possibility keep you awake at night or pestering people on a message board?

I think not.

If you are having "bad feelings that you can't shake" I suggest you take yourself off to a counsellor. We cannot provide you with that sort of support.

MtD

[jkinatl2]

Should I even get an hiv test because of this and if I should when should I?

I think any sexually active person ought to get a complete STD panel at least once a year, including an HIV test. if for no other reason than to have a baseline, and to reassure future (or present) partners.

I have been on this board on and off for about eight years, give or take, and  Ann, Andy, Matty and I have dealt with literally thousands of assessments. The only people we have EVER seen move from this board into the other forums (e.g. the only ones who tested positive) were people who had unprotected anal or vaginal sex.

I am sorry you can't shake a bad feeling. Like Andy is prone to say, and wisely so, feelings aren't facts. The fact is there was no measurable risk on your part. If you were to truly become infected via the method you claim, then you would likely be the subject of serious and prolonged cientific scrutiny, as you would have been exposed to either A) a variant of the virus that has never been discovered OR b) your body contains extraordinary elements that allow infection where no petri dish, no experimentation with lab animals, and no credible human study has ever been able to achieve. A body that susceptible to HIV infection could even steer science towards a cure.

And your health care would likely be paid for.

Short version: It's not ever happened. That bad feeling you have is based on fear, and certainly is not helped by inaccurate and misleading information. There is a REASON why so few people are allowed to post responses in this forum. Many people with HIV, especially newly diagnosed people (but shockingly not always) do not know how the virus is and is not transmitted.

Thankfully, this is a website built on science, and not speculation. Our information is up to date and current. And we never hesitate to correct each other when vague or misleading statements are made - and we always have the science and stats to back it up.

We have really done about all we can for you. I deeply regret that you were exposed to misinformation. Goodness knows, it does not take a lot of web searching to find that. I honestly do not know what else to tell you.

You did not have a risk for HIV.

[Jsnow3312]

Lymphnodes

I have a question about lymphnodes in the neck. This morning I woke up with really strange neck pain. Sometimes when I move my head in a certain way I get this shot of pain that travels up my neck to the top of my skull. Could this be the result of  swollen lyphnodes or something else? How do I know if my lyphnodes are swollen, is there a way to check?

[Matty the Damned]

Lymphnodes

I have a question about lymphnodes in the neck. This morning I woke up with really strange neck pain. Sometimes when I move my head in a certain way I get this shot of pain that travels up my neck to the top of my skull. Could this be the result of  swollen lyphnodes or something else? How do I know if my lyphnodes are swollen, is there a way to check?

We are not your doctor. If your neck is sore, see your doctor. Leave the examining of your lymphnodes to your doctor. Poking and prodding at them yourself will only make them swell.

You do not have HIV.

MtD

[Jsnow3312]

I'm just wondering if it could just be a pinched nerve or if my lyphnodes are swollen due to ars.

[Ann]

J,

How should we know what's up with your neck? We're not there in the room with you. Nobody can diagnose you over the internet.

But regardless of a trapped nerve or swollen glands, whatever is causing your problem is NOT hiv as you didn't have a risk.

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Please consider yourself warned!

Ann

[Jsnow3312]

Hi everyone, i'm really sorry If i'm getting annoying buy I was reading the site and a noticed there are lots of people saying they got hiv from oral sex. Who am I to believe? They seem really sure about it.

[jkinatl2]

Well, there you have it. We have discussed patient report, stigma, and science. I really do not know where else to go with you.

You have to choose your paradigm, and base it upon whatever foundation works for you. If the hysterical and deeply distressed claims of the recently infected outweigh decades of scientific experience and careful study, then go for it. I fail to see how anything written on the LESSONS in this site would stand up to that sort of scrutiny, as there are loud voices telling the opposite, despite scientific rebuttal, all over the web.

I for one am glad that we are sort of coming down harder on people who claim outlandish infection routes (like it matters how someone is infected, once they are) or outlandish testing periods, or other things that impugne thescientific validity of this site as a whole. It sucks that because the forums are not locked down so firmly that people with an irrational fear of HIV cannot read them. But such is the price of freedom, even as it seems to have cost some desperate, self-hating people the time they might have needed to come to terms with themselves and their diagnosis and their behavior.

Hope it has been worth all that to you.

[Andy Velez]

If you continue to surf the net looking for fuel to feed your unfounded fears about oral sex you are going to find plenty. All to no good purpose. Get tested if you want to simply for your peace of mind.

None of that is going to change what we have said to you.

And I am going to give you a last warning that if you continue to return here with more anxious handwringing about an incident which we have clearly responded to as no risk, then you will find yourself getting a 28 day Time Out here. HIV is happily not your problem and in terms of sexual risk, as long as you consistently use condoms for anal and vaginal intercourse it won't be a problem.

[Jsnow3312]

Hi there,

Just wanted to give you an update. 28 days post exposure.
Today I went to get tested by a company called lab corp. They are doing the PCR by DNA and an antibody test. I also figured it was time to get a full panel done everything from Hep a b c to syph.

My only concern is that I've been reading that the PCR DNA isn't conclusive and can yield false positive results. Was this a bad idea to have done? I spent 400$

[Andy Velez]

Jsnow, the DNA/PCR was never intended to be a diagnostic test. It does have a history for a high number of false positives.

Of course this is all irrelevant as far as you are concerned because as you have been told repeatedly, you were never at risk for HIV. No testing is necessary but of course you can go ahead and do that anyway if you want to and collect the inevitable negative result. You've wasted your money with that test.

Should you ever have a real risk, specifically unprotected vaginal or anal intercourse, then only an HIV specific test at 13 weeks will give you a conclusive negative result.

Meantime you have been warned about coming back agian over a non-risk incident. I am giving you a 28 day Time Out. Don't make the mistake of trying to get around it by creating a new name. We'll spot that right off and it will get you permanently banned. HIV is not  your problem at this time. You need to let go of this and get on with your life.
 fP

[Jsnow3312]

Well I did it again I had sex with a stranger, this time it was a black women. I wore a condom so I'm not worried about that and I understand that oral is almost low risk. This time it was different I got a little to aggressive and I caused her to bleed just a little, all it did was make my saliva a littlr brown. I got some of the blood in my mouth, I spat it out. She said she got tested at the obgyn last month but lets just say I would rather have science on my side.

[RapidRod]

   Please do not start a new thread every time you have another question or thought - regardless if you think your questions are related to each other or not. It helps us to help you when you keep all your thoughts or questions in one thread and it helps other readers to follow the discussion. Additional threads will be merged.

[Andy Velez]

I've merged your threads here. Please follow our rule and keep any entries of yours in this same thread.

The important thing is that you wore a condom for intercourse. Condoms provide very effective protection. The race of your partner(s) is irrelevant. It's what you do and not who you do it with that matters.

There was no risk from the oral despite the presence of some blood. Your saliva has over a dozen elements and proteins which very effectively prevent the transmission of viable HIV if in fact it is even present. Also, the area of the vagina where HIV might be present is in the cervical area, far up in the vaginal cavity. That's not where your mouth or tongue would be during oral sex.

You are worrying needlessly and there is no need for testing over this incident. 

[Jsnow3312]

ok thought so, I jus freaked about the blood becaus I was always told that blood was number 1 fluid for hiv. I guess im stressing about nothing. She said she went to the obgyn and got tested and she was a kept up professional women so statistically she probably didn't even have it.

Btw about incident #1 my tests were all negative from herpes to hep a b c and hiv.

[Andy Velez]

What she or anyone says about their HIV status is irrelevant. The important thing is to always be using a condom for vaginal or anal intercourse.

Period.

That's good about your negative test results. And "btw," that's no surprise that you got a negative on HIV after all of that totally unnecesarry drama.

[Jsnow3312]

What she or anyone says about their HIV status is irrelevant. The important thing is to always be using a condom for vaginal or anal intercourse.

Period.

That's good about your negative test results. And "btw," that's no surprise that you got a negative on HIV after all of that totally unnecesarry drama.

I know Andy but I suffer from OCD telling someone like me to not worry about it is like telling someone with depression to cheer up.


One last thing this involes fingering. I fingered her and my cuticles are very parched and dry even split in some areas and exposed. Wouldn't exposure to her vaginal fluid be a means of infection thru an the open cuticles?

[jkinatl2]

I know Andy but I suffer from OCD telling someone like me to not worry about it is like telling someone with depression to cheer up.


One last thing this involes fingering. I fingered her and my cuticles are very parched and dry even split in some areas and exposed. Wouldn't exposure to her vaginal fluid be a means of infection thru an the open cuticles?

Suffering from OCD, you must realize that reading these forums and asking questions will do nothing to quell your fear. No one in the history of the pandemic has gotten HIV from fingering. I realize that your disorder makes you believe, despite all logic, that you can be the first.

It is that departure from logic that makes this forum useless to you. We deal in logic and science. We deal in first tiered peer-reviewed science. We shy away from conjecture and theory, mostly because it clouds up otherwise perfectly clear waters regarding HIV transmission.

As you have been diagnosed with OCD, I hope you are under the care of a qualified and capable counselor. I further hope that you address these unjustified fears with him/her. I must further note that this site cannot help you face your fears, overcome your OCD, or overrule the cognitive dissonance that maintains your illogical trepidation.

I cannot imagine this site being any further help to you than it has been already.

[Andy Velez]

I will only add to what JK has said that if you return with more what ifs and non-risks when everything has carefully been explained to you about risks, well you're going to find yourself getting either another Time Out or being permanently banned from the site.

You need some professional help with your OCD and that is something we cannot provide in this setting.

But I can tell you we are not going to permit you to return again and again when there is no genuine HIV situation involved.

Life is short. Get yourself some professional help.