HIV and Dating: Part III "I'm back and I have a lot to tell"

[Suntropic98]

Well after my month long hyateus I am finally back!

So after my tragic episode with the woman many of you remember so vividly I have fully bounced back and have been on the rebound like no other. I'm on top of my A game now but the past month and couple of weeks have been a learning exp to say the least. I've hurt my shoulder in a freak accident, fell down inside the shower and landed on my shoulder. I think I've either torn my cuff , bruised the interior muscle or have a slight sprain. Either way it's killing me and I'm going to an orthopedic to check it out.

As far as the female situations go it has been a whirlwind of a time. I'm like the energizer bunny, I just don't stop. After telling the first chick about me being POZ and her freaking out I figured I have nothing to lose and decided to just keep hitting them all up till I find one dumb enough (or sweet enough) to look past my status. So far there has been a Tiffany, a Melissa, a Mandi, a Marissa, a Kristen and a Jennifer. Not to mention I broke down and had sex with my soon to be ex-wife again. Something came over me and I couldn't stop that one. I met someone online on a poz site who turned out to be a blowjob ninja, straight brought the ancient talent down on me like a renaissance. Women like her only come around every couple thousand years, kind of like Mary Magdalen. Problem with that one was I could barely understand a word she said. She was from Russia and had been living here for just over 2 years. Horrible english but she does have a medical degree from St. Petersburg so she either gave up mad head for it or she's actually smart. She is also about 10 years older than me which was hot but really I think it's just a one time thing. Her body looks really good but I'm having a hard time dealing with the busted english. We'll see what happens. I'm just a little skeptical about the whole mail order bride look she has.

As far as my night of chaotic debauchery goes, I had a really hard time figuring out how to prevent that B.S.  from happening again....then it hit me. I went to a gay bar where chicks would not be hounding me. I had the time of my life, ironically. I felt at home, HIV signs were everywhere. I met the owner of the mega club, he actually gave me a tour and my drinks were free. Problem is I was probably the only straight guy there. I ended up with 14 business cards the next day from guys giving me their cards. I had no idea in gay bars people actually have cards for hook ups. That was wierd. Cool thing about that was I found 3 guys who took me shopping and picked my clothes out, and they are pretty f*ing good at it. I actually had a lot of fun that night but I won't be going back. I'm just not gay and I had too many guys hitting on me. One guy's card said "If you're thinking what I'm thinking....call me" and then it had his name Wow. Thats all I have to say about that.

On to the women in my life now.....

I don't know what it is but all 6 of them have been taking a really wierd twist to this HIV thing. A couple of them freaked out seriously, like I was some kind of alien. After a few days they both started calling me back worried about me and wanted to know how I'm doing. 2 of them actually got mad at me that I didn't have sex with them and one said it still does not change things between us only that some things we can do and some things we can't. We talked but it has been 3 days since I last heard from her. Her boyfriend came back in town from up north after being gone all off season, he's a professional hockey player. I doubt I'll be hearing from her as much as I did due to him being around now but still she was mad I never hit it. She pulled the whole "Do you have any idea how many guys would love to come over and have sex with me?" card. Thats when I decided to stun her and just came out with "I have HIV". The other two were shocked and could not believe I had HIV, one of them thought I was actually lying about it and told me if I didn't want to talk to her anymore to just tell her and not insult her intelligence. I was just like "No, seriously, I had f*ing AIDS in Feb 2006. I got it from my ex-wife" and she still did not believe me until a couple of days later when i showed her a copy of my latest lab results. Now she is cooking me dinner 3 nights a week, like chicken noodle soup thats homemade with veggies. The other chick was all upset and mad that I was not upfront from the moment we met but has since has some sort of wierd motherly kick. She tells me we're still ment to have met each other and she wants to stay around me. She's done my laundry twice already and she asks a ton of questions about the virus and meds and how my life has been since. She actually may be a keeper but there has been no intimacy aside from just making out. The other, I think is getting off by knowing my status. Thats really f*ing wierd. I get this feeling like she thinks I'm like a dangerous animal thats hers and she has under control. Either that or she just does not care about HIV and likes to just "show me off" which is fine by me but still......i don't know if there's something there for the future. All in all I like the attention and it's helping me get over my ex. Several have already told me I'm high maintenance but I've really been dragged through some mud the last 2 years. I really got nailed to the cross by my ex and the lawyers still have not worked everything out. I think these women are helping me through a rough time, though I'm not getting any from them aside from the russian chick and my ex. I'm terrified of the legal reprecussion of hitting it while being POZ. I just don't know how to deal with a woman being mad at me for not having sex with her. That really bothers me. Like I'm not doing my manly duty. Keeping it tight and hitting it right use to be my motto. Now I can't do either without major risks involved. I feel like a part of me is gone forever.

lost in my world.....


-Sunny

[jkinatl2]

Your stories continue to inspire and impress.

I hope you find your happiness.

[Suntropic98]

Your stories continue to inspire and impress.

I hope you find your happiness.

I don't know bro. There really is no reason to impress but I do strive to be an inspiration to all men with HIV. Bottom line is very rarely do men like me come around and it's really not over until it's over. HIV or not, shits not going to phaze me.

[Dachshund]

  


lost in my world.....

Nuff said

[woodshere]

Your stories continue to inspire and impress.

As well as leave some readers speechless, like me at this very moment.

....very rarely do men like me come around ......

huh??

[structuredjen]

I figured I have nothing to lose and decided to just keep hitting them all up till I find one dumb enough (or sweet enough) to look past my status.

Sun - you know I love ya.. but I take a bit of offense to the above statement as the negative partner in a serodiscordant relationship.  I'd like to think I'm not dumb or sweet...  in fact, I'd like to think it's my intelligence that gives me the strength to be in a relationship with someone who is poz.

If you looked at it like that, you might just find a woman with beauty AND brains.

[Suntropic98]

Sun - you know I love ya.. but I take a bit of offense to the above statement as the negative partner in a serodiscordant relationship.  I'd like to think I'm not dumb or sweet...  in fact, I'd like to think it's my intelligence that gives me the strength to be in a relationship with someone who is poz.

If you looked at it like that, you might just find a woman with beauty AND brains.

Hey Jen, I love ya too babe. I did not mean for it to come across like that. I made that statement coming from the angle of 90% of the women out there I've met are either ignorant or simply don't care to know about the virus. One chick I mentioned in the post even asked " HIV? That stuff is still around?" and I just shook my head. I don't know if I end up with all the bimbos or what but none of them except one really cared to be well informed about it. Honestly, I wish I could find someone like you. Fact is you're an extremely rare thing....like me. The ignorant ones hear the word HIV and run for the hills and the sweet ones ( I am finding out) may stick around and pamper your ass but won't break you off any. I've pretty much accepted the fact that I won't find a chick like you....and if I do find one I don't know what I would do. I would be floored. So, again, I'm sorry if it sounded degrading or offensive. I did not mean for it to sound like that.  PM me if you want to talk more about it. Besides, I think I owe you a PM anyways.  I've been MIA for just over a month.

[Miss Philicia]

blowjob ninja.... where's milker?

[Suntropic98]

blowjob ninja.... where's milker?

You like that one, don't ya? Remember where you got it from. 

[Miss Philicia]

 


lost in my world.....



Nuff said

But we could take him shopping... that could be amusing.

[Moffie65]

For the readers of this thread; if you are not appalled, you aren't paying attention!

Love,

[manchesteruk]

Your attitude towards women never fails to amaze me.  You have to be a wind up, I didn't think people like this actually existed!

[Suntropic98]

But we could take him shopping... that could be amusing.

We'd have a blast. I could learn so much about clothes from you guys.

[Suntropic98]

I didn't think people like this actually existed!

People said the same thing about Jesus, Thomas Jefferson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Dan Brown, Bill Clinton and the list could go on.......I'm flattered.

[Lwood]

So the obvious conclusion Im getting is that I need to have cards with " BlowJob Ninja " printed up ...

youd better Copyright that one..

Not everyone may necessarily agree with what Sun says in alot of his posts , you have to admit that its a style of writing that really breaks the monotony around here. Ill even go so far as suggest that he'd make a good addition to AIDSmeds lineup of  Bloggers.. Hes coming from a place that isnt very well represented but is unfortunately destined to grow (Alpha Male, Straight, Single, Young, Pretty Attractive and socially aloof,  sort of like the Male version of Reagan Hoffman )  

The 'Florence Nightengale ' reaction from the women is a new one on me,  and as for the Bad reactions, Dingoboi used to refer to Disclosure it as " An Asshole Detector"  so I suppose it works the same in the straight scene as well.
  L


P.S. the post you made months ago about guys taking Altripa before going out clubbing in case they want to 'Hit it Raw ' still makes me chuckle

[manchesteruk]

People said the same thing about Jesus, Thomas Jefferson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Dan Brown, Bill Clinton and the list could go on.......I'm flattered.

hahaha, definitely a windup!

[Dachshund]

 so I suppose it works the same in the straight scene as well.

Nothing takes the wind out of the sails of a player like some good ol' fashioned HIV tainted blood. The rest is all talk and there are plenty of vlogs to prove it. Play on player.

[MOONLIGHT1114]

I see a lot of insecurity and "aiming to please" here from you, Sun.  Sad how nothing has changed.  Yes, Moffie I AM appalled, shaking my head in disgust.

Wake the hell up, will you?!?!?

~Cindy

[ademas]

I read Sun's threads, but I have a difficult time taking them very seriously.

The original post is usually so way over the top that it's more a caricature of a person that really doesn't exist to this extreme.  Some of his follow up posts to the comments others make are more thoughtful, which just reinforces my thoughts that he's posting for reaction.

It all seems more like a modus operandi of posting than anything else, and 90% chain-yanking.

[Suntropic98]

I see a lot of insecurity and "aiming to please" here from you, Sun.  Sad how nothing has changed.  Yes, Moffie I AM appalled, shaking my head in disgust.

Wake the hell up, will you?!?!?

~Cindy

I'm not trying to offend you, cindy, but after reading some of your posts about your mental and financial issues in the women only forum I came to the conclusion long ago you're a total nut job.

[MOONLIGHT1114]

Thanks, Sun, I got a good laugh out of that last post from you.  My friends here know me better. 

Us "nuts" should hang out sometime.   

[thunter34]

I've kept silent on this thread so far, but that last post just pushed it.  Cindy's shared trials have come off a lot more legitimate and heartfelt to me than your hand-wringing over how HIV has cramped your style and ability to keep "hitting it right" with all your "chicks".  Reported you there, sun.

[Suntropic98]

I read Sun's threads, but I have a difficult time taking them very seriously.

The original post is usually so way over the top that it's more a caricature of a person that really doesn't exist to this extreme.  Some of his follow up posts to the comments others make are more thoughtful, which just reinforces my thoughts that he's posting for reaction.

It all seems more like a modus operandi of posting than anything else, and 90% chain-yanking.

Point taken, ademas. Take my posts for face value, thats what I tell my readers. Believe it or not there are many who were concerned about me during my break from the board. If I was not who I am, or as you say portray myself to be, then I would still be negative and I would not even be on this board. Truth.

[Suntropic98]

Thanks, Sun, I got a good laugh out of that last post from you.  My friends here know me better. 

Us "nuts" should hang out sometime.   

I'm just telling it like it is. Don't try to call me out when you have deep rooted issues yourself.

[Suntropic98]

Nothing takes the wind out of the sails of a player like some good ol' fashioned HIV tainted blood.

Yea man, it kind of grabs you by the balls. Even you can relate to that one.

[Suntropic98]

I've kept silent on this thread so far, but that last post just pushed it.  Cindy's shared trials have come off a lot more legitimate and heartfelt to me than your hand-wringing over how HIV has cramped your style and ability to keep "hitting it right" with all your "chicks".  Reported you there, sun.

Reported me? What is this? Day Care? Tell me what exactly I've done wrong. And just to reiterate for a moment, if I recall correctly I said I'm not hitting much anything.

[MOONLIGHT1114]

if I recall correctly I said I'm not hitting much anything.

Oh dear.  I'm going to get some lunch or something. 

[woodshere]

I'm just telling it like it is. Don't try to call me out when you have deep rooted issues yourself.

I don't think anyone is trying to call you out for issues you have.  Speaking for just me, I find the way you refer to women and speak of women to be very chauvinistic and offensive.

Reported me? What is this?

Maybe calling someone a nut job.

[Peter Staley]

I'm not trying to offend you, cindy, but after reading some of your posts about your mental and financial issues in the women only forum I came to the conclusion long ago you're a total nut job.

Sun -- Peter Staley here, the founder of this site.  The insult you posted above crosses over the line of what we consider acceptable discourse here.  Consider yourself warned.

Cindy -- for the sake of nipping this flamewar in the bud, please resist posting to this thread any further.

Sun -- if you're not familiar with our warning and Time-Out system here, please read the sticky thread near the top of this forum.  The only response to this warning you should even consider posting publicly is an apology.  If you have a problem with my warning, feel free to send me a private message about it.  If you attempt to defend your words above, in any way, you'll be given an immediate 7 day time-out.

Peter Staley

[404error]

I have to say I find this guys threads amongst the most entertaining on this site.  Not because I agree with what he says, or even believe that all of it is 100% truth. What I really like are the reactions I read from others.  This guy really seems to set some people off.  Conflict is interesting, not to live through but certainly to read through online.

[Suntropic98]

Peter-

I am sorry for any line crossed.  


On another note, you're just the guy I need to talk to. How can I go about becoming an Aidsmeds blogger?

[Peter Staley]

Send an email to editors-at-aidsmeds.com requesting to join our blogging team.  Just an FYI, there are quite a few folks at Smart+Strong who get involved with a decision to add a new blogger, and sometimes we decide not to add a blogger simply because we feel we have a large enough blogging team as is.  But your request will be considered if sent via email.

Peter

[Suntropic98]

Send an email to editors-at-aidsmeds.com requesting to join our blogging team.  Just an FYI, there are quite a few folks at Smart+Strong who get involved with a decision to add a new blogger, and sometimes we decide not to add a blogger simply because we feel we have a large enough blogging team as is.  But your request will be considered if sent via email.

Peter

So basically the way it works is that people take a vote on you and then based on that decision it is determined whether or not you may become a blogger. Am I right? I'm asking because I have looked at the bloggers and have yet to find a blogger who represents my segment of the HIV community as one person other than myself has pointed out in this thread. I think given my persona I would make a great blogger. I will apply via email. And I would like to make clear that I am in no way dicing people up into categories. We all have at least one thing in common but I think in a lot of cases that is where it ends and I think there are many who would agree. Thank you for your help. 

[Peter Staley]

Frankly, how we pick our bloggers is a bit of a mystery, and we'd like to keep it that way.

[Dachshund]

Yea man, it kind of grabs you by the balls. Even you can relate to that one.

Not really, I've been hittin' it since the day I became infected.

[Queen Tokelove]

Geez. I don't even know how to respond to be honest. I agree you have issues with women or at least to me it seems. Or better yet, I have to wonder about the caliber of women or should I say girls you deal with. I am amazed that someone even took the chance to marry you because you have a major ego that needs to be knocked down a peg or two.

Your life seems to center around sex and booze. Women to you seem to be nothing other than notches on your bedpost or what they can do for you. What do you have to offer them Sun other than a hard dick? And dick comes a dime a dozen whether it be human or plastic. I see you as a womanizer and the women that deal with you seem to be looking for a nut, not much else.

I hope that Peter and the people at Strong+ Smart show some common sense and not add you to their blogging team. To me that would be like sliding down a razor into a pool of gasoline. Your comments would do nothing more than ignite a flame war to say the least which you have shown just by trying to insult Cindy. And  I am not even going to mention the faux pau made by them before.... So Peter if you never listen to me in your LIFE please listen to me now, PLEASE DO NOT PUT SUN ON THE BLOGGING TEAM. ANd yes Moffie, I agree with you, I am appalled. You're cute Sun but you're not that cute.......

[woodshere]

Geez. I don't even know how to respond to be honest. I agree you have issues with women or at least to me it seems. Or better yet, I have to wonder about the caliber of women or should I say girls you deal with. I am amazed that someone even took the chance to marry you because you have a major ego that needs to be knocked down a peg or two.

Your life seems to center around sex and booze. Women to you seem to be nothing other than notches on your bedpost or what they can do for you. What do you have to offer them Sun other than a hard dick? And dick comes a dime a dozen whether it be human or plastic. I see you as a womanizer and the women that deal with you seem to be looking for a nut, not much else.

I hope that Peter and the people at Strong+ Smart show some common sense and not add you to their blogging team. To me that would be like sliding down a razor into a pool of gasoline. Your comments would do nothing more than ignite a flame war to say the least which you have shown just by trying to insult Cindy. And  I am not even going to mention the faux pau made by them before.... So Peter if you never listen to me in your LIFE please listen to me now, PLEASE DO NOT PUT SUN ON THE BLOGGING TEAM. ANd yes Moffie, I agree with you, I am appalled. You're cute Sun but you're not that cute.......

ALL HAIL THE QUEEN!!!!

[englishgirl]

suntropic, to me you appear from your posts to be struggling with your status, even if you dont think you are.

im glad that you feel that you are able to disclose to potential partners at the moment, but i dont think that i am alone in feeling that the way you are going about it is also symptomatic of your needing help dealing with your status and the emotional challenges which it presents to you.

like many others i wonder how much you are attempting to provoke strong reactions from people, and i suggest that it might be appropriate for you to seek some counselling regarding your status (and possibly regarding your attitude to women and relationships).

up - i'm gonna have to disagree with you here, i dont think this sort of conflict is interesting, i think it's sad. i have no probs with intellectual conflict or ideological discussions, but i do have probs with this. it makes me sad when i think that people are being upset or wound up. especially when it is possibly intentional.

peter - i echo queen. i would have serious concerns with putting someone on the blogging team who i believe still has so many issues with their status. additionally i would hope that if the team were to add a heterosexual male blogger (i assume this is the unrepresented 'segment' to which suntropic refers to) it was one who had more complimentary views of women.

sun - if you are considering blogging why not instead consider some community work? educating others in your area about hiv? fighting stigma and highlighting safe sex? who knows, you might even meet a nice woman that way...

[Queen Tokelove]

Well Woodsy, you know I must keep it real. I am anxiously awaiting Sun's reply because he is not dealing with a bimbo here. I would like to know where he meets these women at? Ah, yes the local watering hole or prolly a rave party where everyone is prolly jacked up on X or something. I think if Sun had a real woman in front of him he wouldn't know how to act, him or his pecker......

[Andy Velez]

Hey All,

I just want to put in a word of caution here.

I'm reminded of a couple of unhappy instances in recent threads in which someone's begun a thread which displayed not a lot of self-awareness along with a fair amount of self-involvement. The result was finding themselves to be the object of quickly mobilized and considerable negative feedback.

So while there's room for give and take in the Forums, I am concerned about how easy it would be to have another gangup here, with Sun the object in this case.

Please avoid any name calling and/or labeling and keep your comments strictly from the "I" perspective.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[Suntropic98]

Geez. I don't even know how to respond to be honest. I agree you have issues with women or at least to me it seems. Or better yet, I have to wonder about the caliber of women or should I say girls you deal with. I am amazed that someone even took the chance to marry you because you have a major ego that needs to be knocked down a peg or two.

Your life seems to center around sex and booze. Women to you seem to be nothing other than notches on your bedpost or what they can do for you. What do you have to offer them Sun other than a hard dick? And dick comes a dime a dozen whether it be human or plastic. I see you as a womanizer and the women that deal with you seem to be looking for a nut, not much else.

I hope that Peter and the people at Strong+ Smart show some common sense and not add you to their blogging team. To me that would be like sliding down a razor into a pool of gasoline. Your comments would do nothing more than ignite a flame war to say the least which you have shown just by trying to insult Cindy. And  I am not even going to mention the faux pau made by them before.... So Peter if you never listen to me in your LIFE please listen to me now, PLEASE DO NOT PUT SUN ON THE BLOGGING TEAM. ANd yes Moffie, I agree with you, I am appalled. You're cute Sun but you're not that cute.......

I just want to quote this passage before it gets deleted or edited. I get grilled for calling someone a nut job who is an established member of this site and respected by many but then absolutly nothing is done about this or the guy who is egging her on. Amazing!

Akasha, I had to work late tonight and I am about to leave my office. I will respond to you later in a few hours. All of your questions will be answered.

[Suntropic98]

Well Woodsy, you know I must keep it real. I am anxiously awaiting Sun's reply because he is not dealing with a bimbo here. I would like to know where he meets these women at? Ah, yes the local watering hole or prolly a rave party where everyone is prolly jacked up on X or something. I think if Sun had a real woman in front of him he wouldn't know how to act, him or his pecker......

the 2nd quote......just for POI (proof of incidence)

[Queen Tokelove]

I understand where you are coming from Andy. Really I do. But I would just like you and the others including Sun to understand where I am coming from if I may.

I have read Sun's posts in the past. His posts about females really gets to me. One, being that I am a female but it makes me wonder where he gets his women from or even his thinking on women. He gives me the impression that women are here merely for his sexual pleasure and nothing more. And that the women he deals with are complete idiots for lack of a better word. I actually get a visual of him asking one of his females what is 1+1 and she is literally scratching her head and comes up with the answer 1. And him in response saying, It's ok sweetie while steadily walking her to the bedroom. But then from reading his previous posts, he always seems to be the life of the party and this prolly where the females come from.

Then I have to ask myself what if he came across an intelligent, strong, and sexual female. How would he respond? A female in order to get her in the bed he would have to stimulate her mentally which means none of the lame pick up lines but an actual intelligent conversation. How would he respond?

I may be ghetto fabulous in my ways but I am also educated. I have street knowledge as well as some book knowledge. The type of man that Sun shows himself to be on these forums, I would shut down in an instant. In other words he would bore me because he would not hold my interest.

I guess more than anything I am just amazed at what some settle for. If you wish to give me T. O. because of this post, I understand but I just felt I needed to say this so you could see where I was coming from...

Ah Sun, I see you have quoted my posts, how gracious of you. I hope this post let's you know where I am coming from.. If you wish to comment to me that is fine, it can be here or in a PM. I really am trying to figure out  where you are coming from. If my posts have offended you which it seems it has, I apologize that your ego was bruised so easily.

[Ann]

I just want to quote this passage before it gets deleted or edited. I get grilled for calling someone a nut job who is an established member of this site and respected by many but then absolutly nothing is done about this or the guy who is egging her on. Amazing!

For a start, did you not bother to read Andy's warning? Maybe you should before you complain about "absolutely nothing" being done.

And anyway, Akasha didn't call you names, unlike your name-calling directed at Moonlight.

Quite frankly, I'm also appalled at your attitude towards women. "Chicks" - you don't seem to have clue one how offensive that term can be to women. And that's only the tip of the iceberg.

[anniebc]

I  agree with everything Ann had to say on this one..but that's all I'm saying in regards to this thread....I have no further interest in what Suntropic has to say in this or any other thread.

Jan

[Matty the Damned]

You don't have to be a woman to appreciate why Sun's comments are so offensive. Last time I checked women were human beings, not mere objects to be conquered for somebody else's sexual and ego gratification.

Any decent, reasonable human being would feel the way the Queen, Ann and others do upon reading the adolescent tales related here and in other threads by the OP. Daddy Tim, Youth Pastor Tim and Woodsy, all decent people, have formed that view.

MtD

[Bucko]

Troppie-

You and I have been through all this several threads ago.

You claim to not be a player, and get vaguely offended at the word, but your vocabulary says otherwise. If you wish to be taken seriously as a member here, an elemental understanding of life and how humanity operates off Miami Beach's various bridges and causeways seems to be in order.

Is it really acceptable to refer to females as "chicks", "blowjob ninjas" and the ever-popular "nutjob" (to mine only the most egregious terms from this thread) outside of a VIP room or a strip joint anywhere? Would you want someone referring to your female relatives in such a fashion?

I am perhaps the least puritanical and most loudly sex-positive member around here. I have no axe to grind regarding sexual adventure and conquest except as an enthusiastic participant. I am no prude but I have found your posts singularly insensitive to the women who read what you write.

Having spoken with more than one woman member here who've spoken to you via PM, I've been told that the demeanor you project in the open forum is tempered in private. Perhaps you'll find a more sympathetic public if you choose to express yourself in your PM voice more generally.

And, of course, I'd love to take you shopping. It could be an AIDSy take on Queer Eye...   

[Andy Velez]

Sun, it's perfectly understandable if you dislike some of the responses you've gotten since I posted earlier this evening, But in giving them a careful reading I see only honest reactions to what you've written without anyone resorting to namecalling or other like commentary.

I don't know whether you can dig this or not, but you simply can't use the kind of provocative terminology you do and expect members to react simply with "please pass the cucumber sandwiches, Lady Bracknell." You've said some things and used words which stir very real reactions. Rather than responding quickly and being defensive  I would urge you to give some considered thought to how people feel about some of the things you've said. I know what I'm asking isn't easy to do but I'm asking it anyway.

You can if you wish PM me if you think that would be helpful. That's an offer and not a request.

Meanwhile we will continue to watch this thread. Carefully.

[Miss Philicia]

We'd have a blast. I could learn so much about clothes from you guys.

Oh, I'm *VERY* VIP at the Bal Harbour Shops.

[Lwood]

But seriously, Lets just pop the batteries out of the old Label Maker for a few minutes here.
 Ive seen gay men refered to as Fags, Bitches, Sissies, Queers, Twinks, all manner of Pig and then theres my personal favorite " Power Bottom " here in the forums on a regular basis, and not always in the fond, cutsie pie tea party fashion either. 
let me put this one forth : If its offensive for a straight man to call a woman a 'Chick '  or even a Blowjob Ninja  isnt it equally offensive for someont to refer to a gay man as a Sissy, Queer, or Piss Pig ?  I know I dont particularly care to be refered to that way, even by other gay men ( not that Im a piss pig mind you, thats just a metaphor )   Granted, in a public Support Forum, a lot of terms  that would normally be thrown around in a barroom or back porch arent apropriate, but if we all need to keep our conversations on this Forum all squeaky clean and Politically Correct I think it should apply across the board .
OK, rant over please replace the batteries in the label maker, I need a dozen 'Blowjob Ninja™ ' stickers by the weekend...

[woodshere]

Lwood, you make an excellent point. I find myself using such terms as you mentioned with no problem, but if a straight conservative republican called a group of gay men fags, I would certainly be upset. It's the context in which they are used that makes the difference and who said them and where they were said.  As for sun's writings, I know it's offensive to me, but not sure how to say why, it just is.  Hopefully someone else feels similar to me, but can put it into words.

[Miss Philicia]

Lwood, I thought the same thing and PM'd it to someone.  It seems when gay men make such remarks it's accepted as a big "whatever" and nobody cares.  I guess we have different rules than the heterosexuals do, but there's a long history of male dominance with women so it's understandable.

Anyway, I'm glad I'm gay and don't have to deal with all of this.

[Suntropic98]

Anyway, I'm glad I'm gay and don't have to deal with all of this.

Hey Philly! I'm about to respond to the others but I saw your post and wanted to hit you back real quick.

Just because you're gay does not mean you won't run into some real man eaters. I'm sure gay men experience the gay version of me, too......hence the term man eater. Not that I'm proud of being such a hot topic as of late but there remains one simple fact; there are plenty of guys (gay & straight) out there just like me. And if everyone who dislikes me really looks within, I think the reason why they don't like me is because they have met people like me in the past (or currently know) and things never were too peachy between them. Maybe they're jealous. Who knows. I don't care.

[thunter34]

Lwood, you make an excellent point. I find myself using such terms as you mentioned with no problem, but if a straight conservative republican called a group of gay men fags, I would certainly be upset. It's the context in which they are used that makes the difference and who said them and where they were said.  As for sun's writings, I know it's offensive to me, but not sure how to say why, it just is.  Hopefully someone else feels similar to me, but can put it into words.

I'll try.  First off, the primary thing that set me off was the "nutjob" reference to Cindy.  I just thought that was uncalled for.  As for the slang references, I'll try to express it this way:  When and if I personally use any term like "bitch", "sissy" or "queer", it is directed squarely at guys that I know to be friends on here- and I know precisely how they will receive it & that they will most likely bat it right back at me in fun.  I know the audience to which I am sending it and know that it is not received with offense.  In this case, I see some rough terminology being directed at a group of people who are NOT accepting it in such a way.  It's being taken as derogatory and hurtful, and it's making some of them angry as well.  I admit to having a bit of a double standard with regard to the sexes in this area.  Comments between the guys can be dismissed much more easily for me.  Comments that run counter to how I feel ladies should be addressed are harder to let roll off.  Still, if I saw this was being taken good naturedly among all involved I might not react as strongly toward it.  But when I see that these comments are in fact offending many of the women...well, at that point it offends me as well. 

[David_CA]

Tim sums it up well.  Basically, if it offends people, it's likely offensive.  It's really pretty basic.

David

[Suntropic98]

Ok everyone, I guess I can respond now.

I will start with Ann.

Ann, I don't really have much to say to you. I don't know you, never spoke to you and never really found any of your posts interesting or insightful let alone helpful. So maybe the feeling is mutual? I feel the same way about Moonlight and have never responded to her or anything she has written until this thread when she came at me. Yes, I did report a post. Not because my heart was broken but because I saw something wrong with what was going on. Yes. I did see what Andy wrote. I still reported the post anyways. And your point is?

Matty-

I never said nor indicated women were objects or less than human. If, like your post, you mean the impression is implied, I think you are sadly mistaken. Obviously, according to your post, I am neither a decent or reasonable human being. Well......doesn't that make you just as bad as I? Are you trying to play devil's advocate here? Let me know.

Bucko-

Whats up buddy! Anyways, I totally know what life is like outside Miami. Problem is not too many people know what life is like in, which is exactly why I'm targeted as a player.....not that that is an axcuse or anything. Bottom line, I like you. You're cool.  

Andy-

I like you, just like Bucko. I like your posts and I find you very helpful. You're honest and I think thats what I like most about you. I can totally dig what you're saying. I can take the heat, obviously more than a lot of people can. I spoke up after peter's post because I saw a double standard. Thats all. Peter and I have been talking via PM and he has made things clear to me. When I have some free time I will PM you, too, I would like to have a more indepth convo about this.

Lwood-

Dude you rock. I'll go shopping with you anytime. You should hit me up if you make it down here some time.

To the rest of you....shalom.

Akasha-

I need more time to respond to your posts. I got home late last night, showered, hit the gym up, ate dinner, showered again and then went to bed. I was flat out tired. Look for my post tonight or sometime tommorrow.

-Sun

[woodshere]

yeah, what tim said.

Maybe they're jealous.

I can guarantee I am not jealous, amazed perhaps, but definitely not jealous.

I don't care.

And herein lies the problem.  Perhaps if you did care you would realize that terms and phrases you choose to use offend others.  By refraining from such inflammatory words, the discussion would center more on the issue rather than the person.  

[David_CA]

You know, Sun mentions a double standard.  This, in a way, is true.  I've 'heard' guys here referred to as meth head power bottoms... this isn't much nicer than being called chick or 'blowjob ninja' or whatever.  I think Sun would be better served to  differentiate the females he's seeking from all females.  The lack of such differentiation tends to lump all females into the select group of sluts that it appears that he's interested in (no offense intended).  It seems that he was much more sensitive when referencing the gay guys in the club than he is with the women he writes about. 

If one is looking for support from any group, these forums included, one needs to be considerate of how one behaves and the language one uses.  I'd suggest being a bit more specific when you're referring to what appears to be all of a particular group, a bit more considerate, and not so quick to post a snappy remark without giving it more thought (this applies to many here, not just Sun).

David

[Lwood]

Woods,  You hit the nail on the head ! Its all about context, and regardless of the smilies and clever punctuation , its difficult to get across on internet message boards. there are a lot of things I dont touch or bring up just for the reason that even if 9 out of 10 people would 'Get it'  # 10 will have a copmlete meltdown
Thunter put it pretty well, and ya I agree that the term Nutjob was over the line, but thats already been addressed.

I use all of those terms I mentioned myself ( OK , its not always easy to work 'Piss Pig' into a conversation but it does come up occasionally)  and Im sure that women toss around terms like 'Chick, Bimbo and Bitch' alot more than we think , ( just watch 'The View' some time, or step into your local Lesbian bar) but again its all about context. I just wanted to make the 'Let he who is without sin..' argument

Sun, I hit Miami about twice a year and the next time I plan to be there is to board a Gay Cruise . If you had fun in a Gay bar just think of the time youd have on the High seas with 4000 of us for a week. { insert Pirate Joke Here }  

[Basquo]

Edited because I just read the modrators' warnings and I'm not taking any chances.  Sun, I'll PM you.

[Lwood]

Just had to add that nobody should be a Player Hater 


besides this thread wouldnt be complete without at least one link to Urban Dictionary...

[Miss Philicia]

Hey Philly! I'm about to respond to the others but I saw your post and wanted to hit you back real quick.

Just because you're gay does not mean you won't run into some real man eaters. I'm sure gay men experience the gay version of me, too......hence the term man eater.

Honey, I *am* the gay version of you.  It's why I'm single now for the past six years.

(however, being gay, I dress way better than you ever will)

[Dachshund]

Just had to add that nobody should be a Player Hater 

lwood you ain't got no cred. you don't hate the player you hate the game. if you don't believe me ask the queen.

[thunter34]

Who knows. I don't care.

Like Woods said, there's the rub.  You should know, Sun, that as a member of these forums I do care about your well-being and would want you to get the most you can from posting here.  The trouble is, it seems your threads always tend to devolve into discourse like this.  I think it is something you seriously need to look at because, in addition to offending several of the other members here, I think the end result is that you are cheating yourself out of the full potential of discussions on this site.

[Miss Philicia]

Shut up you meth head power bottom.

[Lwood]

lwood you ain't got no cred. you don't hate the player you hate the game. if you don't believe me ask the queen.

Good one !! although I have to add that Im playing on a different team than Sun.

[thunter34]

Shut up you meth head power bottom.

You see?  When you say things like this, I dont get offended.  Because I know you say it in love.

And because I know it's true.

[David_CA]

You see?  When you say things like this, I dont get offended.  Because I know you say it in love.

And because I know it's true.

It's especially telling that you knew he was referring to you!   

[thunter34]

It's especially telling that you knew he was referring to you!   

I suppose I walked right into that.  Or backed up on it.  Whatever fits best.

[Miss Philicia]

You see?  When you say things like this, I dont get offended.  Because I know you say it in love.

And because I know it's true.

Actually I should have said "meth head power bottom poppers whore"

[bryonut]

Actually I should have said "meth head power bottom poppers whore"

Did someone call my name?
 

[Dachshund]

Honey, I *am* the gay version of you.  It's why I'm single now for the past six years.

(however, being gay, I dress way better than you ever will)

 Oh Philly da aids has done gone to your brain. The only person you might be a "gay" version of would be Quentin Crisp, but without her flair.

[jack]

I was like this loser till I was about 27. One day you will look back and be really ashamed of your actions.
 I guarantee it. Especially if you have daughters.

[Florida69]

Sun, I totally respect that you have your own style; I get it and can live with it.  With that said, the woman thing, I get that you apologized and that was very manly of you.  My mother, sister, aunt would have been offended at being called a chick, don't you find them in the roost?   Maybe you should just say female, the rest will get your meaning.  I guess that is part of my southern up bringing.  With all that said, I loved the story, so thanks for breaking the hum drum here.  I thought it was cool and read the entire post; I usually just skim for the good stuff.  Can you give me the Russian female's number, I have been working on my technique but never been called a ninja before that is something I would like to do different for the bf.  Thanks for the entertainment.  D

[Peter Staley]

I was like this loser till I was about 27. One day you will look back and be really ashamed of your actions.
 I guarantee it. Especially if you have daughters.

Jack -- The insult you posted above -- specifically the word "loser" -- crosses over the line of what we consider acceptable discourse here.  Consider yourself warned.

Sun, please do me a favor, and ignore Jack's post -- don't let this bait you into a flamewar.

Peter

[Miss Philicia]

Oh Philly da aids has done gone to your brain. The only person you might be a "gay" version of would be Quentin Crisp, but without her flair.

Barbara, please -- you've obviously never seen me in a Westwood ascot.

[Dragonette]

I just don't see why everyone* is being so sensitive with this ______'s feelings. Between not being able to diagnose, label or criticize him there is not much else to write, unless you want to adopt him as a "pet player" who is buying you off with the cheap tactics of coming in here and insulting some members while ass kissing others. And no Philly he is nothing like the straight version of you. I can't write why because that would be violating the very strict guidelines protecting his tender spirit.

*modified to add I mean not the users but the people who make the rules in this site.

[Miss Philicia]

Oh dear Dragonette, I was kidding with that.  I'm simply too fierce to be a version of anything other than my obviously "derivative" self.

[Dragonette]

Thanks for clearning that up. Just looked "derivative" up, learned new word... I don't have a problem with anyone who posted here except the OP.

[Matty the Damned]

Matty-

I never said nor indicated women were objects or less than human. If, like your post, you mean the impression is implied, I think you are sadly mistaken. Obviously, according to your post, I am neither a decent or reasonable human being. Well......doesn't that make you just as bad as I? Are you trying to play devil's advocate here? Let me know.

Matty the Damned never plays "devils advocate". I meant and standby everything I said. You can draw from that what you will.

MtD

[Queen Tokelove]

Well, I don't see any of the nicknames Sun used to describe "his" females as being cute. And why is Miami being treated like it is it's own little world? Is that suppose to be an excuse? I have to agree with Dragonette, there is some ass kissing going on majorly...Should I pass around some chapstick for those lips? Kissing ass does tend to dry the lips out or so I hear. I will await to hear Sun's reply to my posts before saying anything further because I really would like to know why he thinks or feels the way he does towards women or is it just certain type of women?

I don't have a problem being called a chick actually and yes has even been called a bitch on more than one occassion. But if you're going to call me a bitch make it Queen Bitch or Ms. Bitch. I bitch when I have reason to. But to be called a blowjob ninja? Is that suppose to be endearing because a female is good at giving head? I dunno maybe I am missing something here. If a man ate my pussy to distraction what am I to call him? And why would I brag about it to everyone? I would think that would be something kept between me and that person. Because yes, there are haters out there who would love to have what you are getting. I don't hate the player because there are weak minded females out there who seems to love the bullshit but I sure as hell do hate the game. So when the player tries to come my way, I only have 2 words for his trifling ass...GAME OVER (insert PAC  MAN THEME)......

[anniebc]

I can only speculate on why (some) men think like this and why they resort to name calling when it comes to the opposite sex and I think it usually stems from sexual frustration and feelings of inadequacy.

A  kind of "Oh, you don't want me? Well, I don't want you either, you women are all the same" ego defense mechanism that gets channeled into rage and the need to have sort of power over, to dominate, or to abuse women in order to claim some distorted kind of self-worth...just my thoughts and if I'm brought to task for them ...then so be it.

Jan

[jack]

its just a lack of respect. Its the inability to see the absolute beauty of each individual no matter their sex,color,religion,or political party. Women are absolutely beautiful creatures,not to be fucked with. I was caught up in this lifestyle early on and I regret how I treated many women.  I live with that shame and guilt twenty years later and so will the poster.

[Queen Tokelove]

its just a lack of respect. Its the inability to see the absolute beauty of each individual no matter their sex,color,religion,or political party. Women are absolutely beautiful creatures,not to be fucked with. I was caught up in this lifestyle early on and I regret how I treated many women.  I live with that shame and guilt twenty years later and so will the poster.

Since I am awaiting a reply from Sun, I will comment on your post. Ok, let's just go with it and say it is just a lack of respect......Where did this lack of respect come from? Was it something seen as a child growing up? Maybe you can answer this Jack since you said you were like him early on. What made you treat women like this? And what happened that made you change?

[jack]

I dont know why I was an asshole, I was just an asshole. I just chased and all I cared about was the sex.  I became a person I didnt want to be.  Dont get me wrong,I never bragged about it.  I was never really interested in the person,even though I thought I was. Of course I was drinking or high most of the time. I was your typical self indulgent selfish invincible dickhead from the 60s and 70s. I finally just got bored with it. I started hanging with different people, I got married, I had two girls,I found out I was pos. I changed. And of course I quit drinking.
I always treated women who worked for me with respect and never did anything in that environment.
Now when I am talking to a woman I am really listening and looking in her eyes not her breasts and butt. I guess it helps my wife and my two girls are my best friends.

[Suntropic98]

Akasha....stopping in for a sec....I'm leaving my office now, early, just for you. I'll be online tonight with a response. I'm picking up a bottle of wine at the winery.

[Queen Tokelove]

Well, I still await your response Sun but there was no need for you to leave your job early just for me.

[bear60]

Do I detect some flirting going on....watch out, Miss Queen.

[Dachshund]

Queenie, I can almost smell the Axe Body Spray.

[Miss Philicia]

... and they both obviously indulge in the same medicinal plants.

[Queen Tokelove]

Oh, Y'all need to give me some of what you all are smoking...Who is flirting? Not me...You must be talking about Sun....Now don't get me started even though some wine does sound good along with some good green. But I don't get loose just cause I'm feeling good.....


Hmmm, maybe Sun got to nipping on that bottle and some good green and.......Here comes HIV and Dating Part IV.....

[Florida69]

Inquiring minds want to know..   LOL...

Keep us informed.  D

[Miss Philicia]

I'm thinking that The Ninja™ showed up after the bottle of wine last night.

[Suntropic98]

Queenie, I can almost smell the Axe Body Spray.

I have 3 different scents. Phoenix is my favorite.

[Suntropic98]

I'm a little hung over, I'll have to hit the repsonse a little bit later. It'll be good though. Getcha popcorn ready, fools. I got in the store last night and it was like being in victoria secret only for liquor...sheesh. Everything just looked so nice. I got 2 bottle of champange and a bottle of red wine. An unexpected guest came over. And thats pretty much it. I was out by 10pm.

[Queen Tokelove]

I'm thinking that The Ninja™ showed up after the bottle of wine last night.

I guess you called that one, Philly. Sun must've needed some liquid courage to answer my post but when the Ninja showed up, it was a wrap....

[Florida69]

Talk about being blown away... LOL..  D

[naftalim]

You know, we need all the CD4 cells we have and to waste them on the pathetic nonsense of the original poster is absurd.

[Basquo]

I guess you called that one, Philly. Sun must've needed some liquid courage to answer my post but when the Ninja showed up, it was a wrap....

I want a wrap!  Can I have spinach and feta added to mine?

[Queen Tokelove]

Would you believe, I have never had a wrap...

[Queen Tokelove]

Akasha....stopping in for a sec....I'm leaving my office now, early, just for you. I'll be online tonight with a response. I'm picking up a bottle of wine at the winery.

Yep, I am bumping this back up because I would like an answer please. You can start another thread on writing some books but can't even give me an answer to why you treat women the way you do. Sounds to me like you can't finish what you started.....And I would like to have some closure.

It's funny to me in your other thread, you go on to insult people by saying most will not understand what you write in your books but I am trying to understand why you treat women the way you do. So how about giving me an answer Sun? You can go buy some wine for courage but I would still like an answer....

[woodshere]

Some things are unexplainable, even with a summons to appear from THE QUEEN.

[Queen Tokelove]

You just may be right, Woodsy....

[Andy Velez]

Queen, you've made it clear more than once that you're out of sorts with that fella. He's apparently choosing not to respond. That's kinda an answer of a kind.

I suggest you let it be. Your position and opinion are duly noted.

[Queen Tokelove]

I guess you are right, Andy....

[Suntropic98]

I've been ill. Today is the first day I've been online in awhile. I've missed 3 days of work, I can't shake this fever, I sweat like crazy and then I can't seem to get warm. So far today I've soaked 5 shirts, I get a fever thats so bad my teeth chatter. Its been a long time since I've been this sick. I'm pissed that russian whore gave me this. I can't think of any other way I could have caught something like this. I feel like I'm dying. All I've done is drink fluids, take anti-biotics, Motrin and tylenol. I can't even eat solid food. My right ear hurts, my throat feels like it's about to shut, my inner thighs ache and my jaw feels like I got knocked the f*ck out. I can't think straight and my house is a mess. Jennifer is coming over tonight to clean for me, last night she made me homemade french onion soup. My face is greasy like michael jackson's hair from the 80s, I could be a poster child for a jericurl ad.

[Ann]

Sun,

I'm sorry to hear you're not feeling well. Please see your doctor.

I'm pissed that russian whore gave me this. I can't think of any other way I could have caught something like this.

I'm also sorry to hear that you still can't seem to stop yourself when posting on this forum from using denigrating language to describe the women in your life. This is the absolute last warning you will get about this - call one more woman a whore and you're on a time out. In fact, after I speak with the other moderators, you might have earned yourself a time out this time. We're not going to tolerate misogynistic language on this forum any more than we will tolerate homophobic or racist language. You're on pretty thin ice, mister.

Ann

edited because I can't spell when I'm angry

[woodshere]

I guess the "blowjob ninja" wasn't all she was cracked up to be, huh???

[Ann]

Sun,

After conferring with the other moderators, we've decided to give you that time out. It seems to be the only way you'll learn that we will not allow misogynistic language on this forum.


As this is your first time out, it will be for seven days. Make sure you read the Time Out information in the Welcome Thread

Ann

[Queen Tokelove]

Ann,

I was tempted to post to this thread after seeing Sun's latest post but was asked by someone who I truly love and respect to just let it go. I must say that I don't think the 7 day time out will change his views on women.

[Andy Velez]

Wood, that gloating Ninja comment is something not needed.

Sun will be back after his out. So no potstirring, please.

He's gotten himself on to way thin enough ice very quickly. As tempting as it maybe to respond to the provocative things he says, he  and doesn't need any further "encouragement" in that direction.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[woodshere]

So noted.

[Suntropic98]

So I'm back from my TO......

Woody boy has been warned more times in this thread than I have, no TO for him? C'mon Andy. I would ask Ann but I'd rather avoid her, nothing good will come out of us conversing. Double standard?

[Queen Tokelove]

So I'm back from my TO......

Woody boy has been warned more times in this thread than I have, no TO for him? C'mon Andy. I would ask Ann but I'd rather avoid her, nothing good will come out of us conversing. Double standard?

Yep, you're back and still in rare form I see. It just goes to show that your time out hasn't taught you anything. But then that doesn't come as a surprise to me. I don't know how old you are but you act so juvenile, why are you worried about Woodsy? You ought to mind your own business. Last I knew, you were not a moderator, so quit trying to do a moderator's job.

I don't know what your issue is with Ann other than me assuming she must've been the one who issued you your time out or could it be you have a problem with women in authority? So now you want to call on Andy. What, do you think he is going to overlook your baiting and being disrespectful? Guess again, kid. But you could always do me a favor and keep it up so we won't have to see you for 30 days or better yet why not work on getting banned from here. Trust me, you won't be missed!!!!!!!!

[Suntropic98]

Yep, you're back and still in rare form I see. It just goes to show that your time out hasn't taught you anything. But then that doesn't come as a surprise to me. I don't know how old you are but you act so juvenile, why are you worried about Woodsy? You ought to mind your own business. Last I knew, you were not a moderator, so quit trying to do a moderator's job.

I don't know what your issue is with Ann other than me assuming she must've been the one who issued you your time out or could it be you have a problem with women in authority? So now you want to call on Andy. What, do you think he is going to overlook your baiting and being disrespectful? Guess again, kid. But you could always do me a favor and keep it up so we won't have to see you for 30 days or better yet why not work on getting banned from here. Trust me, you won't be missed!!!!!!!!

Last time I checked you werent a role model member of aidsmeds.com yourself. My words may be more controversial but your posts are just as juevenile as mine and if anything less entertaining. You personally bait me into an all out flame war (as well as woody boy ) in hopes of getting me banned. I might have been born on a day but it was not yesterday. I've answered your question in the other forum, now bring it or rtfo.

[Andy Velez]

Queen and Sun, you two need to call a halt right now. You don't have to like each other. But you can't attack and snipe each other here.

If you cannot engage in conversation that sticks to issues then just don't talk to each other. This flaming has to stop right here and now.

Consider yourselves warned. Both of you. And Sun, I'm just wondering if you learned anything from having been given a Time Out. Does it matter so little to you that you come back and immediately become embroiled in this kind of fracas again. If you feel someone is baiting you then you need to NOT engage and instead report it to the moderators.

[anniebc]

First of all Suntopic I doubt many here find any of your threads "entertaining", and if you think you have found a way of avoiding any of the Moderators you are sadly mistaken..like you we were not born yesterday.

If you insist on keeping this going then you will be TO'd again...if you want to stay and give your support then please do...but please remember these forums are not just about you...show a little more respect to the menbers here and things will be fine.

I'm giving you a warning..please take note of it.

Queenie please stay out of this.

Jan

[Suntropic98]

Queen and Sun, you two need to call a halt right now. You don't have to like each other. But you can't attack and snipe each other here.

If you cannot engage in conversation that sticks to issues then just don't talk to each other. This flaming has to stop right here and now.

Consider yourselves warned. Both of you. And Sun, I'm just wondering if you learned anything from having been given a Time Out. Does it matter so little to you that you come back and immediately become embroiled in this kind of fracas again. If you feel someone is baiting you then you need to NOT engage and instead report it to the moderators.

Hey Andy.

If you want my opinion on my TO I think it was unjustified. I attacked nobody and to my knowledge I violated no TOS agreement. To put it simple it was given to me by a mod who simply does not like what I write and felt like showing her mod power off. Me reporting members does nothing, and the reason is because I'm so controversial I deserve everything I get from flamers and baiters ( at least thats the general consensus). You warned both queen and woddy more times than I was ever warned and neither got a TO. And after I was kicked off they still came at me. So yea, I think thats a little unfair.....especially since I ignored them time and time again after my warning in regards to cindy's comment. I counted 6 times you warned them.....and nothing was done. I get warned once and then banned on a flake of a judgement call. Am I wrong to be a little upset here?

[Suntropic98]

First of all Suntopic I doubt many here find any of your threads "entertaining", and if you think you have found a way of avoiding any of the Moderators you are sadly mistaken..like you we were not born yesterday.

If you insist on keeping this going then you will be TO'd again...if you want to stay and give your support then please do...but please remember these forums are not just about you...show a little more respect to the menbers here and things will be fine.

I'm giving you a warning..please take note of it.

Queenie please stay out of this.

Jan

You're giving me a warning? Ha! For what? What did I do this time? I've not disrespected anyone other than cindy (which I was corrected on and changed). Please! I have to hear what you're warning me on. I need a laugh.

[anniebc]

You may call your threads controversial we call them Flamebaits....the warning stills stands.

Jan

[Peter Staley]

I just got home from Madrid, and have promptly banned suntropic for good. 

Folks needs to realize that I definitely have my limits of how much I will allow a member of these forums to completely disrespect our moderators.  It can lead to an immediate ban.  Call me a dictator if you want, but I have no patience for his attitude, and it was obviously unpolicable.

Peter

[northernguy]

Sigh, I'll miss the pec shot, I guess that makes me shallow

[Queen Tokelove]

Sigh, I'll miss the pec shot, I guess that makes me shallow

I'll give you a pec shot, alright.... Haven't you heard what looks good isn't always good for you? Go for substance sweetie, you'll be better off in the long run. Trust me, I know...

[Florida69]

I just got home from Madrid, and have promptly banned suntropic for good. 

Folks needs to realize that I definitely have my limits of how much I will allow a member of these forums to completely disrespect our moderators.  It can lead to an immediate ban.  Call me a dictator if you want, but I have no patience for his attitude, and it was obviously unpolicable.

Peter

I am disappointed, but I am learning to expect that from this forum...   You never know when a member and the people who hold power will come at you at once.  I have some wonderful friends who come here, and that is why I come here.  I have not made any new friends and honestly, I am afraid to engage.  When I do try to engage most of the time I am shouted down, it is not really fair.  I guess I am the lucky one, I have a safe place where people don't judge and  you can be yourself, I just have not seen that ability here.  I don't think from reading his posts that anything he said should have been misconstrued, he was simply a different person with a different attitude and was simply flame batted as you all call it.  When he was called out for being wrong he apologized. I understand each of your points, but I see his as well.  I really thought he was reaching out for help.  With all that said, I have heard stories about this forum, I now have seen that those stories are indeed true.  Take care, D

[PeteNYNJ]

I don't think Sun should have been banned for good, but hey, it isn't my board.  I take offense to the way he spoke to the moderators but I think he felt attacked by them. 

All in all, he did represent a very underrepresented community out there.  Straight, young, attractive - the "it will never happen to me" group.  I understand he offended some and his colorful language concerning women was a bit much, but that is how people talk. 

Maybe I am not as offended by him because he reminds me of A LOT of the guys I grew up with in NJ.  Party, Booze, Girls, and that's all it is about.  Get them alone and talk to them and they turn out to be pretty nice guys. 

Oh well, hopefully he will wise up some and take care of himself. 

Pete

[pozniceguy]

I am glad Peter took immediate action...this guy was too immature to "converse" in a decent way...he constantly declared how "right " he was and how " stupid, dumb, or uneducated others seem to be"    ...I found him offensive in many ways...I hope he does grow up and act..as well as speak in a more acceptable way....he particularly insulted the moderators and didn't hesitate to "beat" on anyone who did not immediately agree with him or adopt his somewhat twisted logic about the treatment of women.....   GOOD RIDDANCE....

Nick

[Dachshund]

Did anyone beside Queen actually bother to read and interpret the misogyny this guy was preaching? If he had said the same things about gays or Jews or any other minority he would have been banned on his first post. To try and explain it away as "oh well boys will be boys" is just beyond me. I have a suspicion the women of the forums feel a bit differently.

While I'm at it we get to hear another, "I've heard stories about the forums and now I know it's true." What stories, what's true? Jeez, give me a break. If it is so horrible go somewhere else, it's really quite that simple. Frankly, I'm tired of people using unnamed sources to denigrate the place.

[Florida69]

While I'm at it we get to hear another, "I've heard stories about the forums and now I know it's true." What stories, what's true? Jeez, give me a break. If it is so horrible go somewhere else, it's really quite that simple. Frankly, I'm tired of people using unnamed sources to denigrate the place.

You just proved my point about being shouted down, so thanks will do...   D

[Dachshund]

You just proved my point about being shouted down, so thanks will do...   D

Oh I see how this works. You are allowed to state your opinion and no one is allowed to respond. Believe me, you haven't heard me shout.

[Queen Tokelove]

I am amazed that some of you choose to defend Suntropic's disgusting ways towards women. Yes, he is young but that does not excuse him for his words about women. I am wondering if some you actually agree with what he is saying. I also agree with what Aunty was saying as well, if he would've said anything derogatory towards gay men, it would've gotten quite ugly. That in itself is very disturbing to me.....

Before becoming heated with Suntropic if you recall, I gave him the opportunity to explain himself. I asked him why he felt the way he did because I was looking for some way to excuse him. For example if he would've said something like my father did such and such to my mother or even if he would've said it was the way he was raised but instead he chose to use the history of the world as basis for his reasoning. And even before I got his twisted views on things, I had to wade through the bullshit of some more excuses which eventually led to even more derogatory remarks about women. I believe it was a Russian whore gave him something and now he has a fever of a 103 and so on.

Then he goes on to attack the moderators. More specific, the female moderators, yes, he tossed a few words towards Andy but his main focus was on trying to degrade the women which screamed to me that he has issues with any women in authority. I don't see how anyone could not see this. Then if any female forum member stand up to him, he wants to scream foul and that he is being picked on. But if the female member kinda ignores him or backs down, he wants to try to bully them. I don't take well to being called out and I am very protective of those here I consider to be friends. I could've responded to Sun's last post which was indeed a call out but since I was warned by both Andy and Jan, I backed off.

My final thoughts on Sun is that he does indeed need help. Will he get it? Not likely when you think of yourself as God's gift to women. Am I glad he got banned, very much so because to me he had nothing to contribute to these forums. Anything anyone posted suddenly got flipped into something about him. Because he has such loathing for women, a woman will eventually be his downfall, karma works in mysterious ways.

[PeteNYNJ]

I am amazed that some of you choose to defend Suntropic's disgusting ways towards women. Yes, he is young but that does not excuse him for his words about women. I am wondering if some you actually agree with what he is saying. I also agree with what Aunty was saying as well, if he would've said anything derogatory towards gay men, it would've gotten quite ugly. That in itself is very disturbing to me.....

I am not defending him, all I said was that is how people talk.  It is wrong and I agree that he should have gotten time outs.  You are right, if he said the same things about gay men it would have gotten ugly.  The boards are not a place for any insults so I understand your disgust.

As for agreeing with what he is saying, c'mon now.  Half the time I couldn't follow it let alone agree.  If you read any of my post you know I would never attack women in any way and have great respect for women.  My mama raised me right

I think he does need help with his attitude in general.  Hopefully he will get that.  I just hate when anyone on here gets banned for life because I know how beneficial it is to have this support system.  But you have to play by the rules and mind your P's and Q's.

Sorry, Queen, if you think I am "defending" him.  I didn't mean to offend with my defend (I am a poet and didn't know it)

Pete

[englishgirl]

personally i think he shouldve been banned/TO'd for misogyny before he even got to insulting the mods. i agree with those who have commented that he wouldnt have got away with voicing similar stuff about another group of people such as an ethnic or sexual group.

i do think he needs help, and not just regarding his attitude to women. i think he came on here trying to upset things and provoke reactions, that needs addressing too as i think it relates to how he is dealing with his status as well as with other people.

a theoretical question. if, in 5 years time we had a lovely and non-misogynistic member, and after some time he contacted the mods confessing he was the former suntropic, and had clearly by his posts renounced all his former opinions, what would happen? banned again or allowed to remain?

[Queen Tokelove]

I think he does need help with his attitude in general.  Hopefully he will get that.  I just hate when anyone on here gets banned for life because I know how beneficial it is to have this support system.  But you have to play by the rules and mind your P's and Q's.

Sorry, Queen, if you think I am "defending" him.  I didn't mean to offend with my defend (I am a poet and didn't know it)

Pete

I appreciate you explaining what you meant. Sun got a time out and still came back like it didn't mean anything. I also hate to see someone get banned for life especially when they have something to contribute. IMO, Sun never had anything worth contributing but instead thought to try to make this site a place for his warped take on how women should be treated and his sexual escapades.

Peter banned him and I explained why I felt the way I did because I did not want people here to feel like I was picking on him or trying to gain brownie points. It was something personal to me and reminded me of the hell I had to endure behind being abused. I think I have said all I possibly can and am done with this thread.

[thunter34]

a theoretical question. if, in 5 years time we had a lovely and non-misogynistic member, and after some time he contacted the mods confessing he was the former suntropic, and had clearly by his posts renounced all his former opinions, what would happen? banned again or allowed to remain?

I would think the appropriate thing to do would be to contact the moderating team and humbly state this change of heart and ask for a chance to be reinstated on a probational basis.  That's just off the top of my head.  To have that sort of suprise reveal (even if he displayed this personal transformation thing) would be a separate violation of the TOS agreement in and of itself, still placing the membership on shaky ground.  The only way to really demonstrate a new found level of respect would be to do so at the outset, with honesty about it from the top down.  The mods and the members would have a right to know this fact from the beginning. 

[Florida69]

I guess my point was that I feel remorseful that a person who obviously needed support will not get it, when it is apparent to me that what he was reaching out for it.  If you read my initial post in this thread I said that the females in my family would have found it offensive.  They probably would ignore the lack of one's knowledge by making such statements.  I come from strong women; I would never call one a chic most less a whore.  Maybe that comes from being raised to be a gentle man from the south.  Honestly, young straight men speak that way these days; whether I agree or disagree it does not matter.  Akasha, I now understand why you took it so personally, and in my mind you fed the fire by engaging the banter.  If someone came here and attacked lets say "gay people" as you mentioned, then I think I would have avoided the conversation, and not be baited into a war of words.  That is just me.  This board is heavily moderated for a reason.  What I have seen first hand here, is that if a person gives a piece of their personality (whether it be right wrong or indifferent) it is turned against them, and I have heard this to be true of this forum and have never actually seen it until this thread.  I agree that he should not have attacked a moderator, but he is not a child, I would not want to be treated that way.

When I took note that this was true, I let everyone know my feelings on this subject and planned on letting it go.  As far as your threat of shouting, only a rationally insecure person would have gone there.  Now I know who you are and you will be the first on my ignore list, I don't deal with rabble rousers.  My life is full of love, work, hopes and dreams; I do not have the time nor need for meaningless threats. 

I believed this young was seeking help in dealing with who he was and who he needed to become in order to deal with his life as a positive straight man.  I hope that my words are not insulting, that is not my goal, I am only trying to clarify why it bothered me that he was banned for good.  I think he had potential for helping his generation.

In light of this post, I will give myself a time out to reflect on the conversation here and threats made, and move on.

Take care, D

[thunter34]

When I took note that this was true, I let everyone know my feelings on this subject and planned on letting it go.  As far as your threat of shouting, only a rationally insecure person would have gone there.  Now I know who you are and you will be the first on my ignore list, I don't deal with rabble rousers.  My life is full of love, work, hopes and dreams; I do not have the time nor need for meaningless threats. 

In light of this post, I will give myself a time out to reflect on the conversation here and threats made, and move on.

Take care, D

Whose "threats"?  I'm not following.  I reread the most recent posts and don't see anything amounting to threats.  Unless by the shouting thing, you mean Dachshund...in which case, that hardly qualifies as a threat.  Like he said above, it seems like your idea is that you are supposed to make blanket statements about the board and those are supposed to stand unchallenged...thus, "letting it go".  But if your statements are challenged at all, then those are "threats made" and examples of you being "shouted down". 

That doesn't fly, man. 

But of course, you're gonna say this is more of the "clique" or "gang mentality".  Which is isn't, it's just making a counterpoint. 

[Andy Velez]

Dear All,

Florida, I agree that it's unfortunate and even sad that Suntropic, someone who can be said to be in need of help, won't be able to draw on the resources of this site. He's of adult age, he made his choices and he has to bear responsibility for his having been banned. To allow him to simply continue on in that manner would have been irresponsible and I totally support Peter's decision.

But there is a much larger issue involved here. And I must say I accept some blame for a situation that ought never have been permitted to go on as long as it did. The language he repeatedly used when speaking about women is absolutely unacceptable here.

He did it over and over while apparently being unable or unwilling to comprehend in any way how foul and obscene his language actually was.

I regret not having warned him early on that if he continued to use those kinds of words -- terms which I will not repeat here -- that he would be banned. We would never allow anyone to use the n word or faggot or queer or make a reference to someone's religion in such a way. And yet I mistakenly let him go on again and again with really disgusting terminology. I can only call it some kind of misquided attempt to have a rational conversation with someone who simply was incapable of doing that. 

It won't happen again. I apologize to not only our women members but to all members, because that kind of language is really degrading and insulting to all.

Sincerely and with shame,

 

[englishgirl]

andy, your post means alot to me and i for one thank you

(and i love the new pic too)

[Dragonette]

Andy, TY.

[Queen Tokelove]

  Akasha, I now understand why you took it so personally, and in my mind you fed the fire by engaging the banter.  If someone came here and attacked lets say "gay people" as you mentioned, then I think I would have avoided the conversation, and not be baited into a war of words.  That is just me.  This board is heavily moderated for a reason.  What I have seen first hand here, is that if a person gives a piece of their personality (whether it be right wrong or indifferent) it is turned against them, and I have heard this to be true of this forum and have never actually seen it until this thread.  I agree that he should not have attacked a moderator, but he is not a child, I would not want to be treated that way.

When I took note that this was true, I let everyone know my feelings on this subject and planned on letting it go.  As far as your threat of shouting, only a rationally insecure person would have gone there.  Now I know who you are and you will be the first on my ignore list, I don't deal with rabble rousers.  My life is full of love, work, hopes and dreams; I do not have the time nor need for meaningless threats. 

I tried to walk away from this thread but since you insist on directing your comments towards me then I think I should give you my response. That is if you haven't already put me on ignore. I don't see anywhere in my previous posts where I was shouting or threatening anyone. What happened is the debate got pretty heated and when that happened Andy and Jan both issued warnings, not just to Sun but to me as well which I heeded to and back down accordingly. If it would've been the way you seem to have imagined it then I would be serving a time out. Funny how none of the moderators seen it the way you did but then I guess you will blame that on them showing favoritism.

I take you baiting me with this post by saying that I am a rabble rouser. Please tell me in any other post that I have called people names? I do call it like I see it and whether you want to accept it or not Sun is abusive towards women which in my eyes makes him an abuser. If someone would've come here and started trashing gay men, I would have asked for an explanation for their reasoning just as I did Sun.

Before you start wagging your holier than thou finger at me for being insecure, try enduring some of the mental and physical abuses that I have then come talk to me. I do not need your opinions to validate me just being able to overcome what I have shows me just how strong a woman I am.

[SteveA]

First let me just say I hope Tropic can at least read this post. The symptoms he describes are exactly what I experienced in 1997 when I had 7 T-Cells and MAC! I nearly died! Go see your doctor immediately!

As to the behaviors I've witnessed not just from him but many other's in this thread, I'm appalled at the lack of compassion I've seen by users, administrators and moderators alike. It's quite obvious to me that the boy was too ill to contain his emotions, and having been there with MAC I quite understand how hard it is to be civil when you feel like you're dying! Does nobody here know how to use the ignore feature when people continually offend them? The baiting posts I've seen and the gang mentality used against him sickens me!

Do I agree with his use of derogatory terms? Good grief no! I would hope that people moderating the forums here would be familiar with the postings of someone who is too sick to manage their own responses and have some ability to moderate without using the ban bat because of offensive terms, which I've been seeing by both sides of the fence. Some of the terms bantered about by the opposing side, which I won't bother to re list are just as offensive and I don't care if you are using them in jest or with someone who understands "where you're coming from" when you use them. They should be just as invisible in these support forums as the terms that he used.

I'll say this, support forums should be supportive to EVERYONE affected by HIV, not just those we agree and identify with.

[Tim Horn]

SteveA:

In a post to the Forums dated August 28th, Suntropic made it perfectly clear that he is an HIV medical success story, with a CD4 count jumping from 165 cells to 780 cells in just 18 months. "The people moderating the forums here" -- me being one of them -- are "familiar with the postings of someone who is too sick to manage their own responses"... and, in Suntropic's case, I'm more inclined to think that his behavior in the Forums had more to do with the 9,000 mg of testosterone he claims to be taking a week, along with some seriously engrained misogyny.

No matter what brings people to these Forums -- whether its to be supportive, offer support, or simply shoot the breeze -- we have rules to live by. We want ALL HIV-positive people to use this resource to their advantage, but not at the expense of creating a hostile environment for others. Fact of the matter is, we have women in these Forums who have been on the receiving end of misogyny and abuse in their lives and they shouldn't have to deal with it here. And simply looking the other way wasn't an option in this case, with Suntropic posting numerous derogatory messages in various threads, over the course of a few hours, just back from a Time Out.

We fully expect people to come to the Forums angry, sad and in pain at times. But just as in a structured support group settings, there are rules of communication. Members of these Forums -- and its moderators -- made it perfectly clear that Suntropic was free to talk about his troubles, without chauvinistic musings and baiting. What he suffers from is misogyny... and the AIDSmeds.com Forums simply isn't the place for him to work through this.

Tim Horn

[SteveA]

Well let me just say I haven't read all of the forums and this was the first thread of his that I happened to get on my list of unread messages so I am not familiar with his history, but I still stand by what I said about the bad behavior on both sides. I'm familiar with the term "Give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself", but I find that the people handing out rope like it's going out of style are just as guilty of misbehavior as the one being hung out to dry.

One member was repeatedly warned for baiting him and no TO was issued. That, to me as someone who has just started reading the forums regularly here, reeks of unfairness. Andy has even said he should have stopped SunnyT's ranting much earlier than he did. He also should have issued Time Outs to those who baited him and were repeatedly warned not to do so if you ask me.

I don't know everyone here or all the histories involved yet, but certainly I recognize a lot of familiar behaviors on both sides that could have been better regulated without issuing a lifelong ban. Here's my suggestion. When you get members like SunnyT who appear incapable of moderating their own speech, maybe a little online counciling session via PM where they're not allowed to post in the forums but can certainly discuss things via PM would be a solution and maybe councilors could be found to discuss these things with them via the private messaging system. Just a suggestion, but I think it's a more humane solution than using the ban stick.

Anyway, give time I probably would have found his name on my own ignore list if his history is as bad as you say.

[Matty the Damned]

Anyway, give time I probably would have found his name on my own ignore list if his history is as bad as you say.

Why don't you review Sunny's posting history and decide for yourself, Steve?

Oh, and welcome to the Forums etc.

MtD

[SteveA]

He's gone now, why go out of my way to dislike him if he's not going to be posting here?  I don't discount his past as I don't know it all. I'm only stating my opinions based on what I read in this thread tonight. I certainly wasn't fond of his use of the WH*** & BI*** words but I found the use of the word chick to be no more offensive than the word dude. In any case, I just hope that better solutions can be worked out for the future. Counciling would definitely not have been out of line for his case. 

[Matty the Damned]

I certainly wasn't fond of his use of the WH*** & BI*** words

I presume you mean "WHORE" and "BITCH". We're grown ups here kid, it's alright to cuss.

but I found the use of the word chick to be no more offensive than the word dude.

It's not about whether you or I consider the term "chick" to be offensive, it's about whether women find that word offensive. Apparently many do.

MtD

[thunter34]

He's gone now, why go out of my way to dislike him if he's not going to be posting here? 

   <---------  That's sort of how I'm feeling now.  He's gone now, but that hasn't stood in your way of making blanket condemnations of how he was treated or voicing your disgust at how "apalled at the lack of compassion" you've been.  And all this without really delving into Sun's posting history...nor, I suspect, the posting history of several people involved in this thread.  

[SteveA]

I certainly wasn't fond of his use of the WH*** & BI*** words

I presume you mean "WHORE" and "BITCH". We're grown ups here kid, it's alright to cuss.

but I found the use of the word chick to be no more offensive than the word dude.

It's not about whether you or I consider the term "chick" to be offensive, it's about whether women find that word offensive. Apparently many do.

MtD

I don't like being called dude myself, but I don't find it offensive enough to raise a ban bat to someone. Glad to know cussin's allowed as long as it's not in a name calling post. I think we're all grown up enough to recognize baiting when we see it though. The ignore feature works only if you use it.

[Tim Horn]

I think it's safe to say that this thread will continue to go nowhere fast.

I'm locking this one up.

Tim Horn