SSDI Married gay couples .

[weasel]

    Hello ALL 

                    I have a SSDI question , Bob is very concerned that we both
  are on Disability !

     We were  married in 2009   .    Bob is 63 now and worries about the SSDI becoming regular SS  when he turns 65   .
  We are exempt from taxes , as neither makes enough to file  .
  Do we have to file as a married couple ?   
 Any links you guys know of will be appreciated  .

                                                            Weasel

  P.S. : In a panic mode 

[mitch777]

Hi Carl,

I can't speak to the marriage issue but the good news is that your SSDI (not sure about SSI) payments will remain the same even after full retirement age.
Are you and Bob on SSDI or SSI? Again, I know there are differences but not sure of the details.


http://money.cnn.com/retirement/guide/SocialSecurity_basics.moneymag/index16.htm

(last paragraph)

Hope this is helpful.

[bocker3]

    Hello ALL 

                    I have a SSDI question , Bob is very concerned that we both
  are on Disability !

     We were  married in 2009   .    Bob is 63 now and worries about the SSDI becoming regular SS  when he turns 65   .
  We are exempt from taxes , as neither makes enough to file  .
  Do we have to file as a married couple ?   
 Any links you guys know of will be appreciated  .

                                                            Weasel

  P.S. : In a panic mode 

If you file Federal taxes, I believe that you now must do so as married filing single or married filing joint.  I remember reading something that if a gay married couple had not yet filed for this past year, they needed to do so by Sept 16th, if they wanted to do so as single.  After that date, they have to file jointly.

I can't answer how or if this impacts your SSDI or SS, but you should be able to find info on the IRS site -- the rules for married couples exist.  It makes no difference, to the IRS, if you are same-sex couple or opposite sex couple.

Mike

[weasel]

      Thanks  Mitch & Mike ,
                                               I need to do more snooping now .

      We are both SSDI   ,   I do not think there is enough money to file ?

     I find it to very confusing myself 


                                                                        Carl

[BT65]

Hi Carl, this link may be helpful:


http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/493/session/L3RpbWUvMTM3OTc1MjUyNS9zaWQvdzFra3JTQWw%3D

[2tcells]

ur taxes are taken out before you get paid so there is no taxes to pay or refund to get so you still dont file taxes anyways. but your lucky your both on it they wont let me get married or have a "spose" without lossing my benifits, because a family of 4 can live on one persons full time 8 bucks an hour job so easy if the parents are married... but i guess that makes sence to them since they think one person can live on 600 bucks a month huh.... anyways im pretty sure as long as your not filing for other money you earned and not trying to get any rebates for energy effecient house stuff then there is no reason to file

[JR Gabbard]

Hi all!
I'm a little late for the party on this one, but I want to clear up some misinformation.
If you are legally married you have the option, on your federal tax return, to file jointly or separately. You have to run the numbers and figure out which is more financially advantageous for your family.  (That is the same choice opposite-sex married couples have always had.)  You are not required to file jointly.
Your state tax return is a different matter.  If your state of residence does not recognize same-sex marriages, you would have to file separately.  That has the potential of raising some serious complications--some states require your state filing status to match your federal status, for example--so if you're married but your home state doesn't recognize your marriage, you should talk to a local attorney or tax accountant to discuss your options.
2tcells is correct in that there is no requirement to file a tax return (federal) if you don't have taxable income over a certain amount. By the same token, there's no reason not to file.  And some states require a tax return under any circumstances, so be careful.
As for Bob's SSDI, at age 65 it will automatically switch to SS Retirement.  He could check with SSA right now and find out what his benefit amount will be.  It is usually pretty close to the SSDI amount.

[Habersham]

I would point out too that a lot of times you are asked to produce a tax return for a certain year.

Unless it is the federal government asking to see it, you don't have to prove that you filed it.

[mitch777]

As for Bob's SSDI, at age 65 it will automatically switch to SS Retirement.  He could check with SSA right now and find out what his benefit amount will be.  It is usually pretty close to the SSDI amount.

I'm hoping JR will come back to clarify this statement. I was under the belief that just because it is called SS Retirement when one turns 65 the actual benefit amount would remain the same as SSDI.

 

[bocker3]

Hi all!
I'm a little late for the party on this one, but I want to clear up some misinformation.
If you are legally married you have the option, on your federal tax return, to file jointly or separately. You have to run the numbers and figure out which is more financially advantageous for your family.  (That is the same choice opposite-sex married couples have always had.)  You are not required to file jointly.

While this is true, you can file joint or "married, filing separately".  If married, you can NOT file "single".  Generally (but not always), married, filing separate pays the most tax of all filing statuses.  One should do what is best for their situation, but do NOT file federal taxes as Single, if you are married.

Mike

[BT65]

I'm hoping JR will come back to clarify this statement. I was under the belief that just because it is called SS Retirement when one turns 65 the actual benefit amount would remain the same as SSDI.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/160/~/effect-of-full-retirement-age-on-disability-benefits

[JR Gabbard]

Mike--I stand corrected.  I meant "married, filing separately" but somehow my brain translated that to "separately."  Thanks.
Nonetheless, it is still a problem if your state says you're not married (therefor "legally" single), and that your state tax filing status must match your federal filing status (which must not be "single").  Textbook "rock-and-a-hard-place" scenario.
Mitch--On the Social Security Statements (the one that lays out all your benefits--retirement, disability and survivors) that I've seen over the years, the disability benefit is almost always a few hundred dollars less per month than the retirement benefit, meaning you should get a small raise at age 65.  BUT the only way to know for certain what it means for anyone in particular is to wait to turn 65 and see what happens.  Or you could request your own Social Security Statement (go to ssa.gov and set up an account, or go to the local SSA office, to request one) which will give you a pretty good picture of what's to come.  The numbers you'll get are subject to change, but the closer you are to age 65, the more accurate they'll be.
BT--Thanks!! 

[mitch777]

Thanks JR.
I guess the information in my first link was incorrect. (reply #1)
The last sentence states that the amount would remain the same after hitting retirement age.
The government link that Betty posted was vague as far as whether or not the amount changes. It just states that the benefits will "convert to SS" after retirement.

Edited to add:

I just checked on my SS Statement and my disability benefit runs $135.00 MORE per month than what I would receive at full retirement age.

[bocker3]

Mike--I stand corrected.  I meant "married, filing separately" but somehow my brain translated that to "separately."  Thanks.
Nonetheless, it is still a problem if your state says you're not married (therefor "legally" single), and that your state tax filing status must match your federal filing status (which must not be "single").  Textbook "rock-and-a-hard-place" scenario.

I think that the "rock and a hrd place" you mention is not really a problem because the state law can not override the Feds.  All I plan to do is create a "single" fed form to ensure that only the proper income, deductions etc are used in computing my state form.  I will file married, jointly with the Feds and each of us as single with Virginia.  If the tax paid follows the state laws, what leg do the have to stand on.  In fact, this is the advice that I have been finding, you are the first and only to throw this out as a reason to not file as married jointly.

Mike

[JR Gabbard]

Mike--While it is true that federal law preempts state law in most cases, federal tax laws and state tax laws are separate systems.  States are free to set their own tax structures and reporting rules.  For example, Nevada has no state tax at all.
Individual states are not obligated to recognize your marriage for any purpose.  At least not yet.  If you live an a state that does not recognize same-sex marriage, you might have to go somewhere else to get divorced, for example.  Simple, every day things like using family money to pay car loans or mortgages, when those items are in the name of only one spouse, can create a state tax liability where none would exist under federal tax law for married partners.
None of this violates federal law.
But it sounds like you've thought it through, and you have a plan.  I am not a Virginia attorney, so I can't speak to whether it is a good plan.  But I can tell you that it sounds like one of the possible solutions that the family law (matrimonial law) community is throwing around.  If you haven't yet, run it by someone local who can give you specific advice.
And I haven't suggested that any married couple not file jointly.  I haven't actually suggested any filing status at all, for anyone.  That would be inappropriate and unethical.  That is considered "legal advice," and to render it on this board would be like a physician making a diagnosis by reading a blog; it shouldn't be done because it can't be done well (aka malpractice).
What I do here is explain the law as it stands, on Federal law related to Social Security, and on other topics where I have some knowledge such as issues related to same-sex marriage.  My goal is to give people enough good information to make their own choices, or to give them some understanding and some talking points to bring up with their local representative.  I do not, and cannot, give legal advice here.  That would be unethical (see above).
I have to be clear about that, or I could get into trouble.
Mitch--   That sucks!  It's got me wondering now, too.  That SS Statement I got when I first applied had my retirement number up about $300.  But my gut is telling me that the number was based on an assumption (at that time) that my income would increase by a certain amount over time.  When I went on disability, that assumption was no longer valid, and maybe my retirement will be based on a percentage of my SSDI benefit.
I don't know enough about this, so I need to do some digging.  I'm also ordering a new SS Statement to see what it says.
This is an important and interesting issue, and it needs to be discussed.  But since it is off-topic to the original post (SSDI Married gay couples) we should maybe start a new thread so people can find it.

[bocker3]

Oh, I absolutely get that Virginia does not recognize my marriage.  Although the lawyers who took the Prop 8 case to SCOTUS have signed on to a suit here in Virginia, so here's hoping.......  I have no intention of filing as married for my state taxes - hence my plan to create a "dummy" single Fed form to feed info into my State form.  This should guarantee that I pay the proper amount of state tax and only have the proper deductions, etc.  More work for me.
What I was referring to with Fed law vs. state law was, to my understanding -- I can NOT file as single for the Feds.  There is a difference in taxes between Single and Married filing Separately.  So, if a state says you have to file the same status as Fed, but won't allow you to file married (or married, filing separately, because either way you are "married") it becomes a Catch-22.  Can't file Single with the Feds, can ONLY file Single with the state -- one would think the Federal law would preempt here - one would seem to have to do so.
At any rate, I think I have the right plan for me and Sid -- and I'm willing to fight in court if needed, though I'm not expecting the need.  I didn't realize you were a lawyer and I completely understand the ethics of dispensing legal advice here (i.e. you can't.....).  I am NOT a lawyer and what I'm doing is not intended to be a recommendation for anyone else either, however, I wanted to convey my thought process to others.

Hopefully this whole mess becomes moot sooner vs. later, with equality and common sense prevailing.

Thanks,
Mike

[buginme2]

Oh, I absolutely get that Virginia does not recognize my marriage.  Although the lawyers who took the Prop 8 case to SCOTUS have signed on to a suit here in Virginia, so here's hoping.......  I have no intention of filing as married for my state taxes - hence my plan to create a "dummy" single Fed form to feed info into my State form.  This should guarantee that I pay the proper amount of state tax and only have the proper deductions, etc.  More work for me.
What I was referring to with Fed law vs. state law was, to my understanding -- I can NOT file as single for the Feds.  There is a difference in taxes between Single and Married filing Separately.  So, if a state says you have to file the same status as Fed, but won't allow you to file married (or married, filing separately, because either way you are "married") it becomes a Catch-22.  Can't file Single with the Feds, can ONLY file Single with the state -- one would think the Federal law would preempt here - one would seem to have to do so.
At any rate, I think I have the right plan for me and Sid -- and I'm willing to fight in court if needed, though I'm not expecting the need.  I didn't realize you were a lawyer and I completely understand the ethics of dispensing legal advice here (i.e. you can't.....).  I am NOT a lawyer and what I'm doing is not intended to be a recommendation for anyone else either, however, I wanted to convey my thought process to others.

Hopefully this whole mess becomes moot sooner vs. later, with equality and common sense prevailing.

Thanks,
Mike

Oh my god what a mess.   

I heard on the news yesterday that the state of Oregon has said that even though it's against the law to get married there they will be recognizing marriages performed in states where it is legal.  I believe the story said that they are doing this because the state doesn't believe that it would be legally for them not to recognize them due to the recent scouts decision.  If their reasoning is sound then all states would need to recognize your marriage as long as it was performed in a state where it's legal.  Interesting stuff.