POZ Community Forums
Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits => Insurance, Benefits Programs & HIV => Topic started by: mitch777 on February 09, 2012, 03:17:42 pm
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Hi all,
I am in the beginning stages of applying for ssdi with my attourney and was wondering if anyone could answer a few questions.
I expect I may get turned down the first time as my t-cells are 600 and viral load is undetectable but I do have other health issues as well. We will see...
I am 53 and have been hiv+ for over 29 years. Not sure if that will matter to be eligible.
I still own my own retail business (25 years) but my hubby has been running the show without me the past few years as I am unable to do the job.
I would also like to retain ownership of the business for the "selfish" need of financial security.
Just was wondering if I am able to receive income from the business and if the ssdi administration would look at that income as "regular earned income" or "investment income" (seeing that I am not actually working)???
Any help here?
Also need to learn about medicare part D.
What should I expect to be paying out-of-pocket for drugs, copays, and anything else?
I do know a little bit about the donut hole.
Sorry for the ramble but there is not alot of info out there that I could find about people in my boat.
I have been paying about $12,000. a year for health insurance (ouch!) and hope being on ssdi will help.
My retirement savings are sad.
Thanks!
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Have you tried asking your attorney these questions, at least the one about your business ownership, since you already have him on retainer? I would think obviously you don't draw a regular paycheck from the business since you're not working, but just want to know about having it as an asset? I would assume that's fine as SSDI isn't asset based for disability. I'd still ask your attorney what his opinion on it is.
Medicare Part D is going to vary from place to place depending on what the 3rd party insurer you get is, but going by my experience it will run about $40-50/month. You should see if you qualify (since you're not working) for your state to pick up the cause via Ryan White/ADAP. It may be beneficial to sit down with a case manager at an AIDS service organization to figure out this.
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Hey Miss Philicia,
Actually i DO collect a regular "paycheck", as the business is mine and is profitable but I do not work.
I asked my attorney this and she said she would have to do some investigating.
As for the part D, I thought I read on another thread here that you wouldn't qualify for ADAP if on medicare?
Different states, different rules maybe?
Anyway, does part D cover the prescriptions or is that Medicare itself or both?
Sorry, I will ask my attorney but had so many questions that I forgot a few.
"Fuzzy brain syndrome" kicks in more often than I like.
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Part D is just medications, A & B are for medical services and hospitalization and have a separate premium. At least where I live, and depending on income qualification, you can be on both Part D and ADAP for medications -- ADAP acts as your secondary insurance and thus can cover the premium cost as well as the co-pays. You would need to sort out your income from your business to qualify.
If it was me I would not take a paycheck from the business. If you need the income then give your partner a raise and use that at home. You don't want to be taking a paycheck while you're applying for disability anyway. I find it odd that this isn't being discussed with the attorney.
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I guess I need to explain my question and view on this a bit more completely.
I tend to see the income received from the business as "investment" income, similar to someone who receives income from a rental property or stock market investments.
The business is not currently incorporated. Just wondered if the extra step of incorporating the business is needed for ssdi to consider it as "investment income.
I really don't see the difference and my attorney didn't know the answer without further research. Thought I would bring up the question here if anyone was able to clarify the issue.
As far as I understand, if you are NOT working but have income from investments, it shouldn't have any effect on also collecting ssdi.
I didn't think any income qualifications apply to ssdi if the income is "investment" income as opposed to "earned income" (such as a paycheck from a job in which you actually have to "work" for your income.
Hope this better explains my question.
Am I wrong all together on the "investment" earnings assumptions??
As for medicare A,B, and D, I guess a case manager can give me greater details about how to deal with these in Connecticut.
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Yes sure, I understand what you want the income to be seen as, but that doesn't make it so. Maybe an accountant would better answer the question than your attorney, as indeed it may matter on how the company is set up. It could be a simple matter of how it's accounted for, so that there's a clean paper trail if someone should come looking after the matter later.
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My understanding is that only "earned" income would affect SSDI. I receive dividend checks acquired from stock purchased through my employee stock purchase program. That isn't counted as income but does need to be considered when applying for things such as ADAP, food stamps,etc...
Additionally, you can collect rental income from properties without it affecting SSDI. The specifics on collecting income from a partnership v's receiving dividends from an incorporated business might vary. I would "guess" it doesn't, but you might want to look into it. Incorporating your business isn't too difficult.
I'd caution that if you're working the business while awaiting a determination, they might have fraud investigators following up.
I'm also surprised that an attorney hired who specializes in SSD claims doesn't readily have these answers.
best of luck
Wolfie
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Thanks Philicia and Wolfter,
I did more scouting on line and it doesn't look to good no matter how the business is set up. (it's still looks like it is earned income even if I am NOT working)
Will have to have the attorney dig deeper.
She has dealt with ssdi but does not specialize in it.
I tried several attorneys that specialized in ssdi claims but none of them wanted to get involved because I was self employed. boo.
A good accountant may help too. thanks!
I have only worked about 20-30 hours per year for the past 3 years so they can investigate all they want.
(plenty of witnesses)
It is just a shame that I may have to go out of business and let all of the employees (including my partner) go only to invest the proceeds to have the extra little income be considered unearned.
How dumb is that?
Ugh!
I know that I am disabled and do not work.
Thanks again,
I appreciate the comments and support.
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@ mitch777 I wanted to add my 2 cents here ( been on SSDI for the last 13 yrs.) the way SSDI is set up, what that means is that you cannot work (at what you used to do), if you can work..
( and SSA has evidence of this fact , like in your case, your getting paid ) so that means to them, you still have an income, it will most likely be denied if I'm not mistaken, and as others have shared with you, SSDI is kinda tricky that way....
I have a Teamsters Pension, but was told, if it was over 10K a yr. you should worry about State & Fed Taxes, mine is way under that mark, so SSA says it's not counted as earned income, and wouldn't ever effect your SSDI :) my guess is you need to find out is if that income is considered earned income (if your paying taxes on it)............good luck ;)
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Thank denb45,
I have been reporting my income as usual.
Won't be surprised if I get turned down 1st time because of that but the BIG question is...
I wonder if it is even POSSIBLE to retain ownership of a business without working what-so-ever and still collect an income AND ssdi.
I am hopeing someone in this forum has some expert advice in this area.
I am not rich or poor but have worked my tail off to get to this point.
Just as your pension is considered unearned income, I think my future income from the business should be considered in the same manner.
Seems to me self employed people that employ others are not given equal weight.
Whine, whine, whine.
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Thank denb45,
I am hopeing someone in this forum has some expert advice in this area.
I am not rich or poor but have worked my tail off to get to this point.
Just as your pension is considered unearned income, I think my future income from the business should be considered in the same manner.
Seems to me self employed people that employ others are not given equal weight.
Whine, whine, whine.
Yeah, you might wanna speak to a tax advisor or and accountant, seems to me they would know what is considered earned income and what is not,
how is this income paid to you? is it outta of some kinda 401K or dividend/ annuity account, for example my Pension is an annuity ( like a 401K) but, it's not the kind I can borrow against, it a set amount for the rest of my life, unless they go belly-up , also it's not enough annually to pay any taxes...
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I write myself a monthly owners withdrawal check.
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Hi Mitch,
This is a bit of a sticky problem. SSA will consider any income from your business as income from work if you are even marginally involved in managing the business. One thing that SSA might wonder about is how, if you aren't managing the business, are you able to write yourself a monthly "owner's withdrawal check."
I STRONGLY advise you to talk to a local attorney who is well-versed in SSA law. I cannot offer you any real legal advise.
Having said that (mostly to keep myself out of trouble), one way to deal with the problem might be to convert those monthly checks from "owner's withdrawals" to a regular pension payment. Again, speak to a local attorney for help with the nuts and bolts of the arrangement. Do not try to do it by yourself, as there could be heavy income tax implications.
Alternatively, you could stop taking any income from the business, and allow your hubby to support you, but even that will have tax implications.
These are just a few ideas off the top of my head, they may or may not be appropriate for your situation, but they should give you something to talk about when you SPEAK TO A LOCAL ATTORNEY!!!!
It is also very important that you keep very good records of who does what in the operation of the business, mainly to prove that you have no actual involvement in the day-to-day operations.
Best of luck!
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Thanks JR,
I am not and have not been involved with the business in any way other than a handful of hour per year.
All of my employees can honestly testify to this.
Thought about the partner money shift and may have to go that route.
My attorney is good and local and a good customer to boot.
I believe she also has good contacts to get some answers but was just trying to get some answers myself as well.
Since the business isn't set up as a corporation, I doubt at this time pension payments are an option.
All of this advice is very helpful in any case!
Thank you!
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Mitch,
Cutting yourself a check is technically being involved in the management of the business, even if it is only minimal.
SSA might look at that and decide that you are technically working, ergo not disabled despite your health status. Under SSA rules for self-employment, you are working if you receive more than $720 per month, or if you spend more than 80 hrs per month on the business. The latter condition doesn't apply to your situation, but I'm guessing that the first one does. That is why I said you have a sticky situation.
SSA will look at the same data the IRS uses to determine your taxable income. Have you been paying FICA? If so that is the number SSA will use to decide whether you are currently working. If SSA decides that you have been working (under their definition) then they will deny your claim.
Not the best news, I know. But forewarned is forearmed. If your claim is denied the first time because SSA says you're working, consider making some changes to your compensation and reapply with a disability onset date that falls after those changes took effect.
Thanks for posting this. It is a fact pattern that doesn't often show up on these boards.
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On days like today when I can think clearly and start planning to go back to work I've been looking at the same issues.
Definitely find a lawyer and accountant who can incorporate your business or put it in an LLC.
I've owned businesses and been self employed in the past and found the LLC route the simplest way to manage the business as a separate entity from my personal income.
From what I know, taking an owners draw is just ordinary income and you need to pay regular personal income tax on it. So it would count as income as far as the Feds are concerned.
I'm not an accountant or lawyer though so definitely get professional advice.