Author Topic: Good Manners (Read 7949 times)

Growler · « **on:** October 29, 2011, 06:42:29 am »

I picked up an Android phone this week and I discovered that there are apps available to help men of a particular persuasion to "meet" each other. So far so good.

So after a bit of fiddling I managed to fill in a profile, add a deceptively flattering picture and waited. Beep! someone says Hi and I say Hi in return.We get chatting and we're getting along and we share interests and things are looking serious......ok, it's time for "the talk."

ME: There's something important I want to share with you.

FUCKABLE GUY:ok.

ME: I'm HIV positive.

5 minutes pass

ME: Hello are you There?

ME: Hello?

(Echo Echo.....)

Now I could excuse this behavior as a mere aberration if it was just the once but this has happened on 6 or 7 occasions over the last 3 days. This leads me to wonder, have good manners gone out the window? I mean what is their problem? I'm gay, I'm positive, so therefore I must put out and thus I'm a guaranteed fuck and isn't that why everyone's using these apps in the first place?

Oh well, on a positive note (pun intended) I did exchange numbers with a very bad bear and we're meeting up tomorrow...WOOF!

GROWLER

buginme2 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2011, 08:33:13 am »

As Joy Behar would say "so what? Who cares?"

Sure in a perfect world people would be able to reach down grab their balls and make their thumbs type out some appropriate polite response. But the world isnt perfect (we elected a george bush as president 3 times!)

On the other hand if you don't want to deal with cyber rejection you could always just put it in your profile somewhere so you don't have to keep broaching the topic. Or just ignore the situation alltogether.

Have fun with the bear! I know I would!

GSOgymrat · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2011, 11:19:37 am »

I would not take anything online too personally and recommend you dial down any expectations at courtesy. I was in West Hollywood last night having dinner with a group of gay men who were discussing Grinder hookups and the criteria was brutal... and sometimes pretty funny. One guy said no to a hookup because it was "too far". He was one block away but there were apparently 6 guys who were closer!

mecch · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2011, 12:26:56 pm »

Please provide more information.

When you say you are HIV+, the other guy clicks off. No more connection.
So the rudeness is not sticking around to say - "Ok, thanks for telling me. It's not what I'm looking for. Happy Hunting"

Is that it, the rudeness is the hangup?

Yeah, its damn rude! But the world is filled with neaderthals, especially horny guys cruising.

The "I can't deal with that" will come in many ways, at any time. Its the way the game happens.

I don't like to be rejected because of HIV.

But I dont like to be rejected because of anything, really.

Before I was HIV+ , I changed my hairstyle from military to long, and stopped dressing in some Getups I thought were really kind of silly for my age, but got me laid with great success. Several long-term fuckbuddies rejected me, said we could never screw again with my hair so long.

Gay men get to consume EXACTLY what they want. Maybe you will have to find other people who don't play this criteria game as passionately, or exclusively.

skeebo1969 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2011, 12:33:35 pm »

My wife said she was tired last night.

olliederp · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2011, 01:58:59 pm »

I don't know if I'll ever be able to bring myself to the point where I'm comfortable with casual sex ever again. I feel like if you actually get to know someone for a few days before telling them then the chance of rejection is less. I know that's what every ancient Andy pretending to be 35 says to themselves but in this case it's not like we're exactly being deceptive about anything.

Growler · « **Reply #6 on:** October 30, 2011, 04:50:23 am »

I guess I'm just an old fashioned girl....sigh.

Let me say in my defense, in these unchristian times i believe it's even more important that we insist others uphold the values of common decency and good manners!

Letting a girl down easy, is that really to much to ask for? In my day if a gentleman was uncomfortable with teh AIDS he'd simply say " no thank you, I don't want your diseased cock near my arse." Polite and direct, no confusion their girls!

Now another question....if said gentlemen had already given a girl their mobile phone number, would it be unchristian of her to write the number on toilet cubicle walls all over town with an invitation to readers to be their personal toilet?

GROWLER (who graduated top in his class at the June Dally-Watkins School of good manners, deportment and head jobs)

PS: The drought has broken and I'm back in the saddle again....enough said

Ann · « **Reply #7 on:** October 30, 2011, 08:31:44 am »

Quote from: Growler on October 30, 2011, 04:50:23 am

PS: The drought has broken and I'm back in the saddle again....enough said

I think you made a typo there - don't you mean back in the sling?

You're better off without those who don't bother to respond. They're probably busy bleaching their keyboards/phones. Do you really want to have anything to do with the types of folks who post in Am I? (Well, 99% of them anyway. We do get the occasional one with a real concern)

newt · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2011, 03:40:15 pm »

Erm, it's a phone, like you are the donught and donught eater. Once upon a time people called and texted.

Enjoy the bear.

- matt

Growler · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2011, 04:56:35 pm »

Quote from: Ann on October 30, 2011, 08:31:44 am

You're better off without those who don't bother to respond. They're probably busy bleaching their keyboards/phones. Do you really want to have anything to do with the types of folks who post in Am I? (Well, 99% of them anyway. We do get the occasional one with a real concern)

Dear Ann,
YOU are so wise and KIND I beg you to HELP this worried man. I was drinking and was very drunk and I was given an oral sex by SW. I weared 10 condoms but they all broke!!!!!!! I noticed afterwards drop of blood on the wall behind us and SW had cut on her arm. Now I have ALL the symptoms of ARS!!!!!! My Glands are swollen, I have rash on my arms and my penis has dropped off!!!!!!! I KNOW I HIV!!!!!!!! Please assess my risk.

Signed I Have Wasted My Life

Bucko · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2011, 09:01:52 pm »

Quote from: olliederp on October 29, 2011, 01:58:59 pm

I don't know if I'll ever be able to bring myself to the point where I'm comfortable with casual sex ever again. I feel like if you actually get to know someone for a few days before telling them then the chance of rejection is less. I know that's what every ancient Andy pretending to be 35 says to themselves but in this case it's not like we're exactly being deceptive about anything.

I'm unclear how long you've been living with HIV, but I believe that you'll eventually consider having a casual encounter again, and probably even really enjoying it. IMO, it would be more likely to meet with a sharply negative response by waiting for a few dates before disclosing. Besides, the sooner you disclose, the quicker you'll find if this a deal-breaker for him (or not).

Growlie:

I can't say that I've noticed an abrupt change in manners over the last few decades: people have been cruel twats forever to each other, and most common courtesy was ditched in the 60s, when I was still a kid.

But technology makes it easier to be rude, whether it's a phone ap or an online hook-up site. Just look at anonymous comment threads on most newspaper websites: it's troll heaven

Theyer · « **Reply #11 on:** October 31, 2011, 03:33:09 pm »

I like manners.
With luck they will come back into fashion.
Maybe it could fit the steam punk vibe-courtly manners, rudeness so often is the thin veneer covering a quaking lack off confidence, I muse.
mhtv

mecch · « **Reply #12 on:** October 31, 2011, 05:04:06 pm »

There are dozens of valid explanations why the sorting of the goods can be so brutal, in the virtual world.

But even in that old fashioned live, cruisy, situation - bar/disco, party, sauna, etc - there has always been lots of rude ways to cut down, avoid, dismiss a guy's sign of interest.

The live, "looking right through me as if I'm not here" - if you think about it, is even ruder than a virtual ignore.

Bucko · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2011, 01:48:53 am »

Quote from: mecch on October 31, 2011, 05:04:06 pm

There are dozens of valid explanations why the sorting of the goods can be so brutal, in the virtual world.

But even in that old fashioned live, cruisy, situation - bar/disco, party, sauna, etc - there has always been lots of rude ways to cut down, avoid, dismiss a guy's sign of interest.

The live, "looking right through me as if I'm not here" - if you think about it, is even ruder than a virtual ignore.

I came of age in Boston, where such things were supposedly invented. I was always infamous for flauting Boston Attitude: simply ignoring antisocial behavior works as long as it's an acquired (and not an ingrained) behavior. Of course, there were a whole bunch of guys I chose to ignore, myself

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2011, 04:16:51 am »

Online etiquette becomes much easier to navigate once you develop a hatred of people. as a species.

TonyDewitt · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2011, 07:46:33 pm »

Ann, I love your Christmas icon!

LongTimeSurvivor · « **Reply #16 on:** December 21, 2011, 10:26:46 pm »

I finally just started all my profile descriptions with POZ. I figured if they saw that and it was a deal killer I'd never hear from them anyway. However, I forgot, most only look at the pretty pictures. Otherwise, if they did actually take the time to read, especially the clean shaved ones, and could get by the POZ without blinking an eye they'd find out that my interests are in the furrier body types...especially regarding facial hair and the necessity of such for me to even show an inkling of interest.

Now, I'm not looking for Mr. Perfect. One of my cousins said about my first (deeply loved - and missed) partner - "He looks like a gnome!" My reply was - "Yes, but he's MY gnome." Plus he had permanent facial hair.

Just saying...with this online stuff you can't take it too seriously. Lord knows, I'm getting a good set of one-liners built up in my replies to some of the greetings I get. "If I could just suck those nipples, I'd die happy" my reply "Oh great...I've got Kervorkian nipples...to die for." All right, it sounded funny when I wrote it.

Don't know if this note really helped any but it was fun to write.

newbieguy · « **Reply #17 on:** December 21, 2011, 11:25:01 pm »

Hi, it used to bother me more when someone I was chatting with online would just stop chatting when the HIV thing came up. I don't care now and once I discovered the more HIV friendly meeting websites. There's always going to be assholes who are too busy sanitizing their dicks to know what it's supposed to do. It's just easy for guys to be shallow on the hookup sites, plain and simple. Many still are just ignorant and it's easier to not respond. I agree being poz myself and being kind of old school I think a guy should say if he has a prob with someones status but hey, if not, I'll just chalk it up to him being uninformed, ignorant, or just an ass who probly wouldn't have been that great in bed anyway!!! Lol. Plenty of cool guys out there better worth my time, I'm finding

mecch · « **Reply #18 on:** December 22, 2011, 04:31:58 am »

One of the sites in Europe has this info option: Safesex rules:
no entry
always
needs discussion
never

The needs discussion is often code for HIV+ person, but not always of course.
I have checked needs discussion.

So im chatting 5 minutes with this guy and he asks me why I checked needs discussion. So I responded directly to explain that I am HIV+ and sometimes it happens that two HIV+ people decide not to use comdoms. Instead of disappearing this guy comes back with message after message about how I'm suicidal, on a march to death etc. Hes very technical about all the "risks" I'm taking but 3/4 of his info is wrong. At first I thought, OK, opportunity for dialogue so I gave him different info. ALso he, a stated HIV- gay guy, had a personal opinion about poz-poz bareback. And a personal opinion about who gets HIV.
Well you know where this is going. When he seemed unable to take in new information, nor recognise a personal opinion from discussing information generally accepted about HIV and living with HIV nowadays, I blocked him.

That wasn't enough. He had another identity and had a go at me again.

And a personal opinion about the poisonous cocktail, the heavy side effects, the short miserable life, the always being sick. It came hard and faster.

Frankly, he learned nothing. Could not learn. Just ignorance, misinformation, fear, bias, and then hate.

I would have preferred he had cut the dialogue as soon as he heard I was HIV+. What a waste of time.

newt · « **Reply #19 on:** December 22, 2011, 01:17:47 pm »

Quote

So im chatting 5 minutes with this guy and he asks me why I checked needs discussion.

etc etc .. he'll be calling in a clinic sometime soon to get his positive HIV test result, like the guy who once told me that me being HIV+ was "too real." His personal opinion, fine, dandy, wish him luck, but people who "bareback" are most at risk of HIV, however wisely they choose when crusing online with their hand down their trackies. An opinion is not a condom.

- matt

mecch · « **Reply #20 on:** December 22, 2011, 04:30:25 pm »

Newt. The guy didn't want to bareback. He doesn't bareback. But rather than just saying he was no longer interested in me because I am HIV+, what he wanted was to apply all his judgement about me as some sort of suicidal irresponsible typhoid mary sad sack one foot in the grave asshole.

One of his ignorant annoying gems was - how could i have ANY valid information for him. Since I am Positive and he is Negative, everything I know and do in sex and about HIV, must be false, bad, lies, failure.

I think we have all met this type.

nomatterhow · « **Reply #21 on:** December 22, 2011, 04:57:35 pm »

Being honest if a guy told me he was Poz last month ( when I was still thinking I am neg ) it would have made me uneasy and find a way to escape the situation ... And online , to hang up or stop answering or blocking its the easiest way to say I am not interested or to escape ... Honestly I still do it on grindrs if someone sends a MSG and he ain't my type I just don't answer if he insists I just block! ... no answer = an answer ... I think it's not being rude but a result of the consumption society...

mecch · « **Reply #22 on:** December 22, 2011, 05:55:07 pm »

1) No answer whatsoever is slightly different to a disappearing act immediately after the HIV status is revealed in a conversation.

2) No answer = an answer - yes, this is common enough in the virtual world - cruising online. So people who get no answer should take it in stride. However, "no answer = an answer" is not therefore "polite". Just because people do it.

Unless one is a divinely charming magnet for men and gets a hundred propositions everyday or everytime online, where is the harm in "thanks, no thanks"? some applications even have an automatic polite response, you only have to push a button and the troll who is beneath your human consideration gets a polite if also standard message.

Agreed, blocking an insistent pursuit when that person has been given NO response or encouragement, makes sense. As would, by the way "thanks, no thanks, I'm not interested, etc etc." Which would, again, be civil.

leatherman · « **Reply #23 on:** December 22, 2011, 06:00:21 pm »

Quote from: nomatterhow on December 22, 2011, 04:57:35 pm

no answer = an answer

exactly!

although I agree with mecch that some manners and civility would be nice, i had to chuckle though parts of this thread.

either my attitude comes from cruising in the 80s or some of you people need to get out more. Queers have been flat-out ignoring the flirts/come-ons/passes/etc of other queers, like, forever. Be it in the bar, the park or the back of the bookstore, you can get rejected in any venue, so why should it be any different online? Hitting on someone who doesn't think you're attractive, for whatever reason in their head, is often going to result in you getting snubbed - without warning and without explanation. Factors like clothes, age, looks, what you're drinking, facial hair, who you're with, your car, size of your cock, whether you top or bottom, etc can all be deal breakers at any moment for a fussy queen looking to get laid by the man of his dreams

, so why should HIV status be any different? Queers have been dissing one another, without a care in the world about manners, for decades.

Just be thankful when they don't throw attitude at you along with turning you down.

If it bothers you when they don't reply (which is the answer that they don't want to do it with you), then just move along to hit on the next one.

littleprince · « **Reply #24 on:** December 23, 2011, 04:08:18 pm »

Quote from: LongTimeSurvivor on December 21, 2011, 10:26:46 pm

I finally just started all my profile descriptions with POZ.

If it's Grindr we're talking about you actually get banned for even saying that you are HIV+ in your profile. yes, you read that right, banned. But to be fair they ban you for a lot of other stupid reasons too.

http://grindrbans.com/

TonyDewitt · « **Reply #25 on:** December 23, 2011, 04:54:52 pm »

Banned for being brave enough to post that your +ve? Sounds like they're punishing people for having healthy and honest attitudes about themselves!

LongTimeSurvivor · « **Reply #26 on:** December 23, 2011, 08:04:52 pm »

No...not Grindr...I don't need sex that quick. And if they dump me off because of that I don't need to be on that site anyway.

It's not easy for a lot of people to deal with the attitude of some people regarding their HIV+ status. I just have a very thick skin. Whether it's being gay or being HIV+...these types of people won't even be there when you're HIV- and have a cold. So why in the world would I want to be friends with them...much less have sex with them.

I've dropped several people along the way because I realized it was mostly a one way street. The friends I have stand by me. I know they will come to the hospital and help me shower without getting in the shower (Not AIDS related...had an irregular heartbeat...eight...count them...eight days I had to spend in the hospital and all they had to do was zap me). Wouldn't give them up for the world.

Well...that went a lot longer than it probably should have...

GSOgymrat · « **Reply #27 on:** December 24, 2011, 12:45:45 am »

Quote from: littleprince on December 23, 2011, 04:08:18 pm

If it's Grindr we're talking about you actually get banned for even saying that you are HIV+ in your profile. yes, you read that right, banned.

Seriously? That is ridiculous.

Ann · « **Reply #28 on:** December 24, 2011, 11:22:52 am »

Quote from: littleprince on December 23, 2011, 04:08:18 pm

If it's Grindr we're talking about you actually get banned for even saying that you are HIV+ in your profile. yes, you read that right, banned. But to be fair they ban you for a lot of other stupid reasons too.

http://grindrbans.com/

Jeeze. One of the things in the "these things are banned" list is....

•Nudity (particularly the genitals) covered up by a towel, hat or other means is not allowed.

Everyone is nude under their clothing and jeans cover up one's genitals. So I guess you can't post any photo other than facial photos or it falls under the banned heading.

Evidently they don't allow MTF or FTM either.

grindr=FAIL

They're going on my boycott list.

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 25, 2011, 01:33:23 am »

Um, the stuff about Grindr is pretty much bullshit. They even have a place to list - or not list - ones HIV status.

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Author Topic: Good Manners (Read 7949 times)